My 1998 24 RB with the V-10 blew out a spark plug 400 miles into a 7000 mile trip last month. Fortuneately, I found a garage and machine shop in the mountains of North Carolina that could install a helicoil repair immediately, that it was the easily accessible right rear cylinder and that the remaining, nervous 6,600 miles were blowout-free.
Doing an internet search for "Ford V-10 spark plug blowout" revealed more bad news than I wanted to hear.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... spark.html
But there appear to be relatively cheap (compared to Ford's) solutions.
http://www.blownoutsparkplug.com/aboutus.htm
Has anyone out there been stranded with this malfunction, and how did you proceed?
Thanks,
Karl Striedieck
V-10 Spark Plug Blowout
Moderator: bfadmin
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George Boley
- Posts: 90
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Karl,
Well, the chicken has shown it's ugly head. I also have heard several stories about plugs being jettisoned into God knows where. It seems that many of these cases are after someone has changed spark plugs.
I think I will stick to my previous plan. "NEVER CHANGE MY PLUGS" I am at 104,000 miles with the original plugs and the old girl runs beautiful. Oh, I know with aluminum heads and steel plugs you are going to get electrolysis and those damn plugs are going to get galvanized into the head and they may never come out. Maybe so, but I don't like the options AND If I ever decide to change them, FORD is going to get the job, even though I'm perfectly capable.
I suspect part of the problem is the new plugs, (even if they are the correct ones) are not being torqued by some mechanics which is a must with aluminum heads. Thus the aluminum threads are stripped before you even leave the shop. The thing I don't understand here is why does everyone have to get towed, why can't we just "skip" along home. Hopefully someone can chime in and fill in the plug gaps of my knowledge.
George B
Well, the chicken has shown it's ugly head. I also have heard several stories about plugs being jettisoned into God knows where. It seems that many of these cases are after someone has changed spark plugs.
I think I will stick to my previous plan. "NEVER CHANGE MY PLUGS" I am at 104,000 miles with the original plugs and the old girl runs beautiful. Oh, I know with aluminum heads and steel plugs you are going to get electrolysis and those damn plugs are going to get galvanized into the head and they may never come out. Maybe so, but I don't like the options AND If I ever decide to change them, FORD is going to get the job, even though I'm perfectly capable.
I suspect part of the problem is the new plugs, (even if they are the correct ones) are not being torqued by some mechanics which is a must with aluminum heads. Thus the aluminum threads are stripped before you even leave the shop. The thing I don't understand here is why does everyone have to get towed, why can't we just "skip" along home. Hopefully someone can chime in and fill in the plug gaps of my knowledge.
George B
George Boley
Knowledge will never be lost, provided it is shared
Knowledge will never be lost, provided it is shared
This is my second Triton V10, the first was in my Y2K Excursion. I have been aware of the plug blowout problem for several years although (knock on wood) not from a personal perspective! I really wanted to find an E450 chassis with the 7.3l Powerstroke for that very reason, but they are so few and far between, I was willing to do the V10 again.
While the Tritons do have an issue with the plugs, and it is often after a plug change, factory installed plugs have been known to blow out at under 40k miles as well. However, while the problem has happened to a number of engines, and in the V8 and V6 engines as well as the V10, it would be interesting to see what percentage of engines it's happened in. I'm guessing that although it is fairly common as most mechanics' shops now have the solid sleeve repair kits, that it still only happens on a very small percentage of the engines in service.
I'm with you though, in that when I need to have the plugs changed, it's going to be done by a reputable Ford dealership. At least when it happens, they can't blame it on the plugs being torqued wrong by my independent mechanic!
Oh... and I DID have a plug melt and blow the center out of the plug (essentially making it a ceramic straw) on a '94 Toyota V6 (pulling a Burro 17' travel trailer) because of timing issues. You can't run the engine after that because you're spewing a hot fuel/air mixture into the engine compartment! Not only that, but the engine just flat won't pull anything with that big hole in the cylinder like that.
Roger
While the Tritons do have an issue with the plugs, and it is often after a plug change, factory installed plugs have been known to blow out at under 40k miles as well. However, while the problem has happened to a number of engines, and in the V8 and V6 engines as well as the V10, it would be interesting to see what percentage of engines it's happened in. I'm guessing that although it is fairly common as most mechanics' shops now have the solid sleeve repair kits, that it still only happens on a very small percentage of the engines in service.
I'm with you though, in that when I need to have the plugs changed, it's going to be done by a reputable Ford dealership. At least when it happens, they can't blame it on the plugs being torqued wrong by my independent mechanic!
Oh... and I DID have a plug melt and blow the center out of the plug (essentially making it a ceramic straw) on a '94 Toyota V6 (pulling a Burro 17' travel trailer) because of timing issues. You can't run the engine after that because you're spewing a hot fuel/air mixture into the engine compartment! Not only that, but the engine just flat won't pull anything with that big hole in the cylinder like that.
Roger
'06 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
Following my return home I educated myself about the blow out problem and decided to do the plug change myself. Here are some observations regarding the situation.
Born Free began using the aluminum head V-10 with the Ford 1997 model year. Ford corrected the problem in November 2002 by doubling the thread depth. (Incidentally, this problem exists with the more numerous Ford's V-8 and V-6 engines as well.)
The prevailing wisdom is that the hellicoil insert like that used for my repair will eventually blow out as well. Since this is caused by the tapered spark plug seat not mating well with the helicoil, a solution is a flat shouldered plug and flat copper washer. Check with me for details.
The problem is insuffcient number of threads in the aluminum heads. It only took four turns to remove my plugs. Together with too little torque (Ford specifies 14-17 ft lbs), vibration or whatever, the plugs get loose and begin to hammer up and down with each compression, destroying the threads and soon they blow out of the head taking a $60 coil with them.
Plug torque should be doubled (28-32 ft/lbs). I used 35. As determined by experimenting with a ruined head, it takes over 100 ft/lbs to strip the threads in these heads.
Born Free owners with engines that may be affected might want to consider a plan B so that a blown plug half way to Alaska doesn't ruin the trip. If you are in my shoes, my BF needs to have the highest reliability compared to our other vehicles. With the BF you are usually on a time-constrained trip and a long way from home.
First, if you are near or over the 100K mile point get the plugs changed and insist on torquing to 28-32 ft/lbs.
Second, if one does blow out all is not lost. The motor will run fine on nine cylinders if you do two things: First, disconnect the fuel injector wire at that cylinder. It is a grey squeeze plug attached to an orange connection. Second screw a plug into the stripped out spark plug hole. This second step is not necessary for safety but it will eliminate the racket caused by the missing plug. Third, make an appointment further along your trip (or back home) to have a repair insert installed. Takes four hours. (Ignore the "Check Engine" light.)
From reading the hundreds of postings on consumer websites by affected owners, it appears Ford's warrenty does not cover this problem no matter what the mileage or year. Ford's solution: A $4,500 new head.
Although this problem affects a small percentage of the millions of engines Ford produced between 1990 and 2003, being aware of it and being prepared could make life a little less stressful on your next trip.
Karl Striedieck
Born Free began using the aluminum head V-10 with the Ford 1997 model year. Ford corrected the problem in November 2002 by doubling the thread depth. (Incidentally, this problem exists with the more numerous Ford's V-8 and V-6 engines as well.)
The prevailing wisdom is that the hellicoil insert like that used for my repair will eventually blow out as well. Since this is caused by the tapered spark plug seat not mating well with the helicoil, a solution is a flat shouldered plug and flat copper washer. Check with me for details.
The problem is insuffcient number of threads in the aluminum heads. It only took four turns to remove my plugs. Together with too little torque (Ford specifies 14-17 ft lbs), vibration or whatever, the plugs get loose and begin to hammer up and down with each compression, destroying the threads and soon they blow out of the head taking a $60 coil with them.
Plug torque should be doubled (28-32 ft/lbs). I used 35. As determined by experimenting with a ruined head, it takes over 100 ft/lbs to strip the threads in these heads.
Born Free owners with engines that may be affected might want to consider a plan B so that a blown plug half way to Alaska doesn't ruin the trip. If you are in my shoes, my BF needs to have the highest reliability compared to our other vehicles. With the BF you are usually on a time-constrained trip and a long way from home.
First, if you are near or over the 100K mile point get the plugs changed and insist on torquing to 28-32 ft/lbs.
Second, if one does blow out all is not lost. The motor will run fine on nine cylinders if you do two things: First, disconnect the fuel injector wire at that cylinder. It is a grey squeeze plug attached to an orange connection. Second screw a plug into the stripped out spark plug hole. This second step is not necessary for safety but it will eliminate the racket caused by the missing plug. Third, make an appointment further along your trip (or back home) to have a repair insert installed. Takes four hours. (Ignore the "Check Engine" light.)
From reading the hundreds of postings on consumer websites by affected owners, it appears Ford's warrenty does not cover this problem no matter what the mileage or year. Ford's solution: A $4,500 new head.
Although this problem affects a small percentage of the millions of engines Ford produced between 1990 and 2003, being aware of it and being prepared could make life a little less stressful on your next trip.
Karl Striedieck
Karl, great info here. Thanks! Just a quick clarification: the inserts used in the re-bored plug hole aren't actually heli-coils, as it's true that a heli-coil insert wouldn't stand up to the pounding. The sleeves that they use for the plug hole repair are actually a solid steel sleeve insert that are threaded both on the inside and outside. They may look similar to a helicoil, but they're solid metal. If they're installed properly, they should never blow out as they have enough thread bite to take all the compression the cylinder can throw at them. While there are probably stories about improperly installed new sleeves failing somehow, somewhere, I haven't heard or read of any yet.
Roger
Roger
'06 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
Thanks for clarifying that Roger. The helicoil repair used in my engine is not as stout as a solid insert.
There are a number of competing outfits that sell various designs of inserts. Two of them offer a mobile service to your location. Blownoutsparkplug.com is one of them. His charge is $800 plus airline fare and this includes one insert and replacing the other nine plugs.
Not cheap but better than Ford's idea: A new head at $4,500.
Karl
There are a number of competing outfits that sell various designs of inserts. Two of them offer a mobile service to your location. Blownoutsparkplug.com is one of them. His charge is $800 plus airline fare and this includes one insert and replacing the other nine plugs.
Not cheap but better than Ford's idea: A new head at $4,500.
Karl
Karl, I'm shocked. No doubt this is what Ford charges for a new head. But the price they charge is outlandish and in no way can be justified. You could probably cast one and machine it yourself for less money. I'd be checking the junkyards real quick for a used one before I'd give Ford $4,500 for a new head. Just my $.02karls wrote:Ford's solution: A $4,500 new head.
Barb & Bill
2004 Born Free 22' Built for Two (Sold)
no longer towing a 2008 Smart ForTwo
Escondido, CA
2004 Born Free 22' Built for Two (Sold)
no longer towing a 2008 Smart ForTwo
Escondido, CA
Concerning my earlier post about being prepared for a spark plug blowout, I didn't specifiy the size plug to have on hand to block the stripped out hole in the aluminum head. Pick up a 1/2 inch oversize oil pan drain repair plug. This will self thread into the hole where the spark plug was and eliminate the noise.
Remember to also disconnect the fuel injector wire to that cylinder.
The engine will run fine on one less cylinder and get you home or to facility that can install an insert for a new spark plug.
Another comment I made was a little misleading. Ford's better idea of a new head at $4,500 includes installation. The head alone is somewhere around $2,000.
Karl Striedieck
Remember to also disconnect the fuel injector wire to that cylinder.
The engine will run fine on one less cylinder and get you home or to facility that can install an insert for a new spark plug.
Another comment I made was a little misleading. Ford's better idea of a new head at $4,500 includes installation. The head alone is somewhere around $2,000.
Karl Striedieck
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Dave&JanPotter