On the road with dead awning and tv antenna

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mike&linda
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:51 am

EZ TV????

Post by mike&linda »

A digital to analog converter box with analog pass through can be used to receive off air TV signals if it is wired and used correctly. I have attached two diagrams of the before and after wiring. In diagram one I show how most add on satellite systems are wired using the RF (coaxial) input and output ports.

In this system you manually select the Off Air (Antenna) or Cable Connection at the wall plate. If antenna is selected the off air signal is fed to the Satellite Receiver.

If the satellite receiver is off it just passes it to the RF out and to the TV. Since the digital change over an analog only TV will not receive anything.

If the satellite receiver is on it blocks the antenna signal and outputs the satellite signal instead to Channel 3 or 4 on the TV. Channels are tuned by using the satellite receiver tuner.

If cable is selected on the wall plate, the satellite receiver has to be off, and the channels are tuned on the TV after you scan for the cable channels on the TV tuner.

In diagram two a Digital Converter Box is added to the mix.

In this setup to view off air digital signals, you must select Antenna at the wall plate, turn on the Digital converter box , turn off the satellite receiver and select Channel 3 or 4 on the TV. You need to have the Digital converter box scan for digital channels, and change channels on the Digital converter box.

To view the satellite signal turn on the Satellite Receiver and turn off the Digital converter box.

If cable is selected on the wall plate, the Digital converter box and the satellite receiver have to be off, and the channels are tuned on the TV after you scan for the cable channels on the TV tuner

A third method is to use the Video Output of the Satellite Receiver V (video) R (right audio) L (left audio) To the TV Video input of the TV V (video) R (right audio) L (left audio). Then have the RF out of the Digital converter box go directly to the TV RF input. You then switch between the two using the TV’s input selector.

I believe these are the easiest methods to use your TV but I know better then to say that!!
:oops:
Attachments
Diagram 2
Diagram 2
October 23, 2009 (2).jpg (74.29 KiB) Viewed 12401 times
Diagram 1
Diagram 1
October 23, 2009.jpg (44.28 KiB) Viewed 12401 times
1990 26' RSB Diesel
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Post by harrisgowing »

Wow, that is incredible! Thank you so much for all of the work. It makes sense. Two issues with my system - I don't have a cable/tv switch, only a booster button for the antenna. Next, since the tv is in it o/c space, I can't use the av attachments, but you have inspired me to tinker again.
Judy
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
Trisha

Post by Trisha »

Mike & Linda...nice, very nice diagrams... :)

I guess I'm fortunate ? my TV has several input options, and I can just choose between them. If I choose "antenna", I can use that for antenna, Cable or convertor box, and just change which is which in the setup menu, but without a diagram, I'm never going to make as much sense here....

The sat box uses the hdmi input, and then I hook the cable/antenna/convertor box to a diff tv input and select on the tv setup menu.

I the nearly infinite number of possible combinations based on individual setups and equipment can cause immense confusion. I had not considered running the antenna signals through the sat box. All it would functionally do is change where I would "select" my signal.

thinking about different setups now.....
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whemme
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by whemme »

Chuck and Judy,

If your coach is not equipped with a TV wall plate with a slide switch labeled with two positions - CABLE & ANTENNA - then this original OEM wall plate may have been removed by the facility that installed you King Dome satellite TV system.

Even though it may have been removed, that would not prevent you from installing your DTV converter assuming it has the Analog Pass Thru feature and your Initial TV is a model without a digital tuner.

Below are two photos showing the outside connection for the Cable TV input. Check to see if you have this outside connector - if you do then your coach was originally equipped for Cable TV but this capability was then evidently removed by your satellite TV system installer.

Sorry for the tilted photos.
Attachments
Outside Cable TV & Telephone Connections located on the coach generally right behind the left side rear dual tires.
Outside Cable TV & Telephone Connections located on the coach generally right behind the left side rear dual tires.
Outside Cable TV & Telephone Connections.jpg (62.8 KiB) Viewed 12293 times
View of the Cable TV Connection with the cover lid held open
View of the Cable TV Connection with the cover lid held open
Outside Cable TV Connector.jpg (177.1 KiB) Viewed 12295 times
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
mike&linda
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:51 am

Post by mike&linda »

:oops: Thanks for the complements.

A note for all of you who do not have a satellite system, you can replace the satellite receiver in the diagram with any video source such as a VCR, DVD player, or gaming console. As I noted before this diagram shows the typical coach with an analog TV. Most of the new HDTV have muitiple Video inputs making them much more usable in complex video systems.

Remember if all else fails, turn off the TV and enjoy roasting marshmallows around the campfire! :D
1990 26' RSB Diesel
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Post by harrisgowing »

Thanks for everyones patience and help with this, I, as a devout sports fan, really appreciate it. I also detest puzzles that I cannot solve. I will email Bill with the specs for our system, but here is some additional info that may help someone else. We have a cable connection that Bill illustrated, just not the cable/tv switch, so that as a consequence, our cable connection apparently controls eveything. If we have connected cable to our BF, we cannot get satellite. If we turn on the satellite receiver, after we have scanned for channels on the tv once the cable was connected, channel 3 will show whatever is on cable channel 3 but with interference and the Directv page will not come up. If we select antenna on the television with the cable connected, we will get whatever cable channel is on channel 3, even if we scan for antenna channels. Without the coax cable connected, however, we will only get the cable channel 3. Weird, but until now we were accustomed to it and unhooked the cable from the BF any time we wanted either antenna or satellite. That is the end of my sad story, sitting happily right now with cable, satellite capability and wifi. We took a one night break from state parks. I love my iPhone but typing on that thing stinks.

Thanks again, Judy
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
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whemme
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by whemme »

Judy,

Well, the way your coach is currently wired for TV appears to me to be really weird.

But before discussing that further, 1st off, your Initial DTV-DVD-232 LCD TV is only equipped with an analog tuner - it cannot receive digital over the air TV transmissions directly. However, your Digital Stream DTX9950 DTV Converter does have the analog pass thru feature so that is good.

So, now (aside from your probable wiring problems) you have a choice. Either junk the current Initial TV and replace it with a TV with a digital tuner or plan on installing your present DTV Converter.

You stated in your original post that back in May you were receiving TV stations (evidently analog stations) off of your Winegard batwing antenna at that time but not now. Without the ANTENNA - CABLE slide switch on your TV wall plate, the only way that I can see that you would be able to receive TV stations both off of your cable hookup and your TV antenna is that in place of that switch someone installed a coax splitter that would feed both signal sources to your TV at the same time in parallel - not a good idea! Since the Winegard batwing requires +12 vdc be applied to the coax cable center conductor going to the antenna to power its internal pre-amplifier and the fact that this coax is evidently paralleled with your cable hookup, whenever you have your cable hookup connected at a RV campground, this would short out the +12 vdc going to the pre-amplifier in the batwing causing this antenna to no longer function. It would probably function again if your cable hookup were disconnected removing the short.

Did you buy your coach with the King Dome and satellite TV receiver system already installed or did you have it installed later.

From your description above it appears that whoever installed you satellite system removed the TV wall plate that had the ANTENNA - CABLE selector switch and replaced it with a wall plate without that switch and then connected your TV thru the satellite receiver to both the cable connection and the batwing in parallel thru a splitter. If you care to tell the world, who installed and wired your King Dome and satellite TV receiver system?

The way your TV systems are wired is going to have to be changed in my opinion if you ever want to be able to receive digital TV stations via your Winegard batwing TV antenna using either a new digital tuner TV installed or by installing your Digital Stream DTX9950 DTV Converter.

At what point in the life of your coach do you think your TV coax cabling got mis-wired? My recommendation - either find a Camping World store that has a knowledgeable TV, satellite & antenna expert or possibly come back to the Born Free factory in Humboldt, IA and have them straighten this all out. The wiring diagrams posted by mike@linda above are methods that should work OK in your coach.

One thing to remember about the menu selection of either CABLE or ANTENNA on your TV is that either selection works OK for all TV channels 2 thru 13 since the frequencies for these particular channels are identical for both cable TV and antenna TV. However, the frequencies are not the same for channels 14 and above so selecting the proper CABLE or ANTENNA mode in your TV now is important for proper operation.
Last edited by whemme on Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
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Dallas Baillio
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Post by Dallas Baillio »

I may have missed it in reading this thread, but the antenna/cable switch that is most commonly used is called an AB switch. You connect two TV sources (satellite, cable, antenna, VCR, DVD etc.) and manually switch between the two. I haven't done so, but I expect you could connect more than one AB switch and double your sources. Sort of spaghetti wiring, but should work. I know these switches alone will not solve the problems encountered here, but they can be a part of the solution. AB switches have been around for years and are commonly available at Radio Shack and other retailers.
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
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whemme
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Post by whemme »

And the AB switch that Dallas above speaks about is the switch that was part of (built into) the normal Winegard TV wall plate - which was removed at some time for whatever reason.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
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bcope01
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Post by bcope01 »

whemme wrote:And the AB switch that Dallas above speaks about is the switch that was part of (built into) the normal Winegard TV wall plate - which was removed at some time for whatever reason.
The stock TV wall plate in my 2004 BFT does not have an AB switch built in. On mine you just plug the coax cable in and you're good to go - cable or antenna. For antenna you do need to push the booster button in for optimum reception.

Bill
Barb & Bill
2004 Born Free 22' Built for Two (Sold)
no longer towing a 2008 Smart ForTwo

Escondido, CA
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whemme
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Post by whemme »

Bill Cope (bcope01) has pointed out something that I need to explain further because what I stated above about the Winegard TV wall plate is wrong and misleading.

Born Free in their earlier coaches used a TV wall plate made by Braund. This wall plate rather than having a pushbutton switch on it like the Winegard version had instead a slide switch labeled CABLE or ANT for the two positions. It also had a red LED indicator to indicate when +12 vdc power was on to power the antenna pre-amplifier and would be illuminated in the ANT position only. This switch also was an A/B switch that selected the output to the TV from either the top mounted TV antenna or the outside wall mounted cable TV connection.

The newer Winegard TV wall plate functions in a similar manner except it does not have a slide switch with red indicator - instead it has a pushbutton switch with a green LED indicator and does not have the ANT and CABLE markings near its pushbutton switch. However this pushbutton switch has multiple contacts on its rear giving it the same A/B switch function to select between antenna and cable inputs.

And hence, the Winegard TV wall plate installed in Chuck and Judy's coach may still be the correct one and may not have been changed out as I thought in my earlier posts above.

So I apologize for causing this confusion concerning the TV wall plate. At this point maybe the satellite TV system installation is not really the cause of their TV reception problems - it may be only the fact that their present Initial TV can only receive analog TV stations that are no longer being sent over the air to TV antennas.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
Ruby2

Digital TV

Post by Ruby2 »

Well, here is what I have found in my 24RB 04 model. It does have the"green" light switch and that either makes the cable or TV antenna work. I had to update my Direct TV box...Well, durn the luck...it no longer has two inputs. No external Antenna coaxal input. Only for the Satellite. So..I put my converter box in with it connected to the Antenna "green" lite outlet and then used the F type 3 wire cables to connect that with my TV for sound and picture. I connected the Sat up with an "S" connection and then two F connectors for the sound. All works except...I only get analog from the Antenna. Need to program the converter box...maybe that will do it.

However, I have been told that the new digital signal is very narrow and line of site. So if you are pointing your antenna at CBS tower and then want NBC you will need to change the direction. Also it takes a little time for the Digital signal to "settle" in and get a picture. So that could be the problem also. You are not right on the signal for digital.

I have an analog/digital station antenna near me and have gotten the old analog but not the digital signal yet. My TV is HD BUT NO converter in the tv. I am still working with the converter box to try and get the digital transmission since I know where the tower is.

Directv does not want us running the locals through their box it seems. So they left off the extra input for the external antenna. Remember they (GOV,) said that IF you had satellite/cable reciever you would NOT need the box. Well, DirectV decided not to work that program it seems.

Will post IF I figure out the converter box and Digital signal. Good Luck to you Judy.
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Post by harrisgowing »

Thank you, Ruby2, as I once again have tried every conceivable connection with the converter box and nothing works. We too have an updated Directv box with only one input, which seems to be the problem. Not to open a new can of worms, but we are reluctant to get a new tv because of the way our current one is mounted in the entertainment center, installed atthe BF factory with the flip up door in 2006. My new bright idea is to add an
new small HD tv in the RSB area on a shelf that could be used for antenna and everything else. The outlets are there but who knows if they work?!! Any opinions? This has at least let me practice with Internet capabity with my new iPhone and has convinced my husband, maybe, that I am not the only one who feels disconnected without tv for more than a day or two. Thanks again everyone for the participation.

Judy (Chuck opted out of this long ago)
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
mike&linda
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:51 am

Post by mike&linda »

This is the instructions from the Initial DTV-DVD-232 LCD TV manual item No. 2 explains how to wire the video inputs to the TV. If your DIRECT TV receiver is a HD Unit you have to use the AV3 input for a satellite HD picture. You can use either the antenna input or the AV2 input from your Digital converter box.

:?: One question I have for those with a satellite system, you should a coaxial cable that comes from the dish assembly that only goes to your receiver. And a separate cable that comes from your wall plate. Is this correct?



1. CONNECT TO POWER
a. Connect the mini plug of the AC power adapter to DC IN jack on the back of the DTV-232.
b. Connect the power plug of the AC power adapter to the power socket.
2. SYSTEM CONNECTIONS
a. Using the antenna input: Connect the antenna terminal from an antenna or cable/satellite
receiver to the antenna input terminal on the DTV-232; use the TV/DVD/AUX/PC button and
the / buttons to set the DTV-232's signal source to "TV".
b. Using the AV2 RCA Video/Audio input: Connect compatible AV equipment to the DTV-232
through the AV2 IN jacks on DTV-232 (Composite Video and Audio input jacks); use the
TV/DVD/AUX/PC button and the / buttons to set the DTV-232's signal source to "AUXVideo".
c. Using the AV1 S-Video and RCA Audio input: Connect AV equipment to the DTV-232
through the AV1 IN jacks on DTV-232 (S-Video and Audio input jacks); use the
TV/DVD/AUX/PC button and the / buttons to set the DTV-232’s signal source to “AUX-SVideoâ€
1990 26' RSB Diesel
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