Born Free vs. Lazy Daze

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ewagman
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:32 pm

Post by ewagman »

charlesbell wrote:I'm not sure why ewagman's post of Dec. 8 says I (CharlesBell) said, "LD has a good safety record....". I didn't say that. It was another poster. Not me. My comment was on my preference of BF and BF roll bars....
I apologize, I did not set up the quoted reply correctly. My error, sorry. Thanks for setting things straight.
Ed & Beth
2003 Born Free 26' RSB: SOLD March 2016
replace by a house near the beach
dsfriday

Post by dsfriday »

I checked the LD's out before purchasing our 2008 BFT C/O, heard thru the grapevine that they were well regarded and liked some of the options that were not advertised as available with the BFT, such as, 6 volt batteries, Onan generator, solar panels along with a few others that caught our eye, but they just didn't have the floor plan , that in my mind, would be the best fit for us, that, along with fact they offered the roll bars, located in Iowa, a couple hundred miles from our house and finally the very positive feeling I got from dealing with Ed Newman, the Humboldt, Born Free Salesperson. Never any pressure to buy, most helpful, as a first time buyer, can't even imagine completing the purchase without his help. And the support after the sale is phenomenal, have been back two times since delivery, neither issue was something that prevented use of the RV, just things that weren't quite right and need to be corrected. Never any argument from Kim, and the last time, during the repair process, they found another item, on their own, and also repaired that. Then, beyond the Factory support, there is Leap'n Lions RV Club, what a wealth of Born Free info. on that website. In fact there is one gentleman in the group that is so knowledgeable about electrical matters, I just E-mail him directly with questions. You mention pride of ownership, man was I shocked on our first trip to Florida the winter of 2008-09, had people literally making u-turns on the highway; I kid you not, to find out where we got our RV. It was nuts, like I was driving a Ferrari or something. Well to say the least, we have enjoyed every aspect of our Born Free, one of the best things we have ever done. And also, even though Born Free, doesn’t advertise some of the options listed for the LD, they can provide, like Ed told me, “ We can build whatever you wantâ€
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Mike Jean Bandfield
Posts: 513
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:43 pm

Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

Early on we knew the decision was between BF and LD. We visited the LD factory before seeing the BF in person. I liked their RV'ing knowledge - these were people who RV'd when they weren't building them. I liked their floor plan, pricing, cargo capacity and their options list. I did not like:
- LD would not provide additional cabling for inverter, solar and coax I wanted installed for later use.
- They would not provide a diesel option (available from Ford in 2005.
- Coach width. A few inches taller or wider is hugely stressful when driving the narrower back roads.
- In the floor plan we'd chosen, the drivers seat was extremely upright when pushed far enough back to keep my knees away from the dash board - very uncomfortable and I'm only 6'.
- When I was sitting on the throne - my feet were dangling in the air.
- I'm a wood worker and build furniture. I did not like the cabinet materials, design or construction - but mounting was excellent.

These were issues I was resigned to live with and at this point the LD was the first choice over what we'd seen of the BF from user comments and published specs.

When we saw the BF in person and talked to the factory we found they would accomodate any of the LD options plus my wiring changes and even put in a folding sofa instead of the rear side bed, changes to plumbing lines, 6-volt battteries and much more. And, I got my diesel - which I love!

One other difference surprised me - the BF handled better than the LD in our test drive. The difference was subtle but the larger "box" swayed more and was less responsive than the BF when changing lanes, on curves and cornering in town.

Materials account for much of the weight difference but the aesthetics have been a real joy to both of us.

Jean told me later that she considered my technical requirements out weighed her aesthetic sensibilities but had we went with the LD it would have embarrassed her.

We had a Lance truck camper for 13 years before the BF. Lance is considered an excellent RV mfr and though it's apples and oranges - overall I believe the BF edges out Lance for overall quality.

The people at BF and the excellent response we have gotten to our questions and problems (most of which were other vendor issues) has been excellent. BF's dedication to customer satisfaction has been exceptional and a pure pleasure for us considering they're in an industry known for its disregard for quality products and customer care.

Mike
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
wxtoad

Post by wxtoad »

Sam Ryan wrote:
wxtoad wrote:LD has a darn good safety record as well. Here are some pictures of one broadsided by a semi. The LD stayed upright, square with only a big hole punched in its side. The owners walked away with only minor scratches.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v281/ ... =slideshow

Ted H.
'05 LD RB
How does a picture of a wrecked motorhome equate to your claim of: "LD has a darn good safety record as well?"
Can you provide proof of your claim?

I think you are making that claim simply because you own a Lazy Daze.
Why else would you be making a trolling post on a "Born Free forum?"
Hi there, Sam,

Gee, and a big "howdy" to you too! I don't consider my post to be in the trolling category. Someone commented on the safety record of the BF (without proof of claim either) and I merely responded in kind. Methinks you're awfully touchy.

I agree wholeheartedly that BF's are excellent rigs, and like just about everything in life, it's a matter of different strokes for different folks. We all love the RV life-style and I don't see why we can't all get along a little better than this.

I follow this forum occasionally because I learn some great tips on RV-related items. Some things go beyond the brand.

Ted H.
wxtoad

Re: Born Free vs. Lazy Daze

Post by wxtoad »

Sam Ryan wrote:
kathbowden wrote:Hello. At the risk of getting run off, did anyone here consider a Lazy Daze purchase? If so, what sold you on the BF? These have been my top two contenders, and I like them both, although they're very different. I thought maybe I could hear some insight into your decision. Also, as an aside, how many miles do people find they can get out of the BF ultimately - i.e., 100,000, etc. Thanks in advance!
To be candid, I can't remember even seeing but one or two 'Lazy Daze' in all the years of road travel that I have made.
Gee, Sam, you ought to drop by Gamble Rogers SP in FL tonight - there are four LD's here, totally unplanned. One of them is even from Texas. And oh yes, not a single BF. <G>

Ted H.
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Dallas Baillio
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:52 pm

Post by Dallas Baillio »

Price seems to be the elephant in the room no one is talking about.

If you look closely at pricing you will discover that, for a comparably equipped 27 ft model (generator, roof ac, awning, cabover bed, TV-- extra in a BF and standard in the LD. In the LD heated, power mirrors are extra), you'll pay (my estimate and I invite you to put a pencil to it and come up with an exact figure) at least $40,000 more for the Born Free. For that amount you could have a lot of aftermarket products installed --solar panels, heavy duty inverters, fancy seats, china toilets, special shocks and suspension, satellite dish, 3 stage converter, etc., etc., etc. While I will grant it is true that the BF is better made than a LD -- $40,000? Depreciation will undermine your investment in either, but you start off with an additional $40,000 to factor in. I LIKE my BF, but I'm not in LOVE with it. It has it's shortcomings just like the LD. And at today's pricing for either motorhome, I think I would have to be in LOVE to buy a new BF ignoring such a huge price differential.
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
charlesbell
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:41 am

Post by charlesbell »

From NADA.com used RV values:
A 2007 Born Free 26RSB with standard equipment, average retail is 64% of the $90,180 suggested list price.
A 2007 Lazy Daze M-26.5 with standard equipment, average retail is 62.5% of the $76,250 suggested list price.
I'm not trying to make a point about depreciation; just an FYI.
Trading in my 2006 Born Free back to the company at 100% of book value was, for me, a very satisfactory transaction and a factor in my decision to purchase another Born Free coach.
Last edited by charlesbell on Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Charles / Cape Canaveral, Florida 2013 23FL
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Dallas Baillio
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:52 pm

Post by Dallas Baillio »

Thanks for the info Charles.

Applying these to current pricing:

Born Free $122,885 list less an unknown discount offset by options I listed in my previous post.

Lazy Daze $82,750 list plus power mirrors option. Let's say $1,000.

Then the price differential is reduced to $39,000

BF --- $122,885 x 36% = $44,239 depreciation expense at the end of 3 yrs.

LD --- $83,750 x 37.5% = $31,406 depreciation expense at the end of 3 yrs.

Neither look very attractive do they?

It is also interesting to note that the price differential in 2007 was $13,930 and is now approximately $39,000.
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
kathbowden

Born Free vs. Lazy Daze

Post by kathbowden »

Was there a year that the insulation was improved/upgraded for the Born Free? Also, is there a place to go to see what changes were made to the BF over the years (the 2000s)? Whatever I go with, my plan has been to buy a used one. Thanks again in advance.
charlesbell
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:41 am

Post by charlesbell »

Kathbowden, Born Free mailed a one page document, dated 07/28/10, "Improvements by Model Year 2008-2011." Regarding insulation, in 2008, "Sidewall insulated with Low Emissivity Foam & foil, supplementing fiberglass batting."
If I was smarter with technology I could scan and attach this page and email to you, however, what I can do is mail a copy to you if you want to private message your mailing address to me. Or, I'm sure BF would mail you the document.
Last edited by charlesbell on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Charles / Cape Canaveral, Florida 2013 23FL
bookie71

Post by bookie71 »

We looked at both, but LD wouldn't give us any user names to contact and looking at some of the used ones on the web they seemed to show their age much more. LD just didn't seem as customer friendly as Born Free.
wxtoad

Post by wxtoad »

Sam Ryan wrote:Born Free coaches have the indisputable distinction of no fatalities ever, spanning nearly 40 years. They are also constructed using wood and multiple steel roll bars in the fiberglass enclosed coach.

If the Lazy Daze brand can lay claim to equaling or exceeding the above Born Free performance and construction facts, I'd sure like to have access to that data - if such existed.
Lazy Daze is in the same league with Born Free in building safe RV's. Since building the first Class-C motorhome back in 1964, Lazy Daze has been fatality-free. LD uses a gusseted steel reinforcing framework incorporated into the coach that helps provide extraordinary protection for the occupants and the motorhome. In addition, the aircraft aluminum siding provides extra rigidity to the coach's structure. Thus it would be appear safe to say that one can expect to have a safe, comfortable ride in either a BF or LD.
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whemme
Posts: 2110
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by whemme »

Actually, I am pretty sure that the various Class A motorcoach conversions based on the Prevost chassis use an aluminum outer skin.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
John S.
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:01 pm

Post by John S. »

whemme wrote:Actually, I am pretty sure that the various Class A motorcoach conversions based on the Prevost chassis use an aluminum outer skin.
Most of the Prevost bus conversions use stainless steel at least from 96 on. I have been looking at different busses as my next big coach. I have to say that this LD BF discussion has been interesting. I have owned 5 motorhomes in the last 9 years. I will say this though. I have looked at every manufacturer and brand and other than a Liberty nothing really comes close to the Born Free. If I had to choose one unit only, it would be a Born Free 24 or 26 foot unit. The construction and the company are second to none and the ability to work with the factory is wonderful and they are responsive to the issues and make them right when they crop up. Nobody has even come close in my experience to BF.
2015 Royal Splendor on Ford 550 none slide version
Former owner 2007 24foot rear bath painted and 2006 22 foot built for two
Former owner 1994 34 foot 2000 36 foot and 2001 42 foot FORETRAVEL's.
SteveS

Three things that I like about the LD

Post by SteveS »

There are three things that the LD has that I wish were standard on a BF.

1) Full body paint. The paint that LD uses is exceptional. Even in the southwest, it is common to see a 7+ year old LD with paint that looks new.

2) Better ground clearance in the rear.

3) Fully integrated and standard spare tire. The bottom line is if we didn't have to give up under the couch storage to have a spare on a BF, most of us would carry one.


Having said this, I have a BF and wouldn't trade it for a LD. No RV is perfect.

Steve
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