Towing

[dsfriday]

Anybody flat towing with a BFT with the 305 V-10. I have a restored Toyota Fj40 weighing around 3600#, maybe a little more than a Jeep Wrangler that I would like to flat tow to Borrego Springs this winter. See bigger Class C's with the same horsepower as my BFT towing approx. 3600#, but I'm really uncomfortable with the idea, especially on the 5 to 6% and sometimes 8% grades encountered out west. Not a problem going to Borrego, but on return visit family in Carbondale, Co. and Denver. Co. and accents and descents in between are demanding. With the BFT alone, especially pulling the accent to the Eisenhower Tunnel, I'm turning 3500 RPM running 45 to 50 MPH and on descents with Towhual engaged and tapping the brakes off and on, can't imagine the trip with an additional 3600#, but see it all the time?

[mockturtle]

I assume you are shifting down for ascents and descents.

[dsfriday]

Oh, yes. Most of the time, on the accents, auto downshift comes to late for my taste, so I'm usually depressing the foot feed to downshift. On the decents, with towhaul engaged, transmission will downshift with first tap on the brakes, engine turning around 4500 RPM to keep coach at 55 MPH or less. So the BFT handles the mountains moderately well, would be much better with diesel power. can't help to believe I would be greatly under powered towing an additional 3600#. But like I said, see it all the time, but never had the opportunity to follow a Class C with comparable power up or down.

[whemme]

dsfriday,

I have a 2002 BF 26' RSB coach and I tow behind it 4-wheels down a 2005 Chevrolet Malibu that weighs approximately 3400 lbs. I have towed this car from Iowa to Arizona 6 times and also to the 2011 National Rally in Creede, CO. The trip to Creed envolved climbing over a pass that was nearly 10,000 ft elevation as I recall. My total weight is significantly higher than your BFT with your Toyota FJ40 in tow.

The 305 HP V-10 power at 10,000 ft was noticably weaker but I was to climb the pass OK. My 2002 E450 has the 4-speed automatic and whenever climbing a 6% or greater grade, will end up down in 2nd gear. The V-10 is an overhead cam engine and will willing rev up to and past 4500 rpm but the noise at that rpm is rather loud. The E450 has a 4.56 rear axle ratio rear and I can climb those 6% grades at 55 mph running 4500 rpm. Your E350 is equipped with a lower 4.11 ratio rear axle so you should be able to climb those same grades at 60 mph in 2nd gear.

Always use the Tow-Haul mode when going downhill to assist your brakes in keeping the speed under control. Also suggest you use a supplementary braking system in you toad to help with down hill braking. I have used a Brake Buddy for the last 13 years of owning a Born Free motocoach.

[dsfriday]

So, Bill, based on number of years you have been towing, you are pretty at ease with it. With my BFT and an extra 3600#, can't imagine, if I keep the RPM's at or below 3500, I'll be any above 45MPH on those steep grades. And, yes I'll have a remote control brake system for the Toad, definitely want to keep everything under control on descents. How about your set-up, do you get a pushing feeling on the descents?

[whemme]

Oh yes! Going down a 6 percent or more grade with a toad will always result in a runaway increase in speed easily resulting in speeds greater than 80 to 85 mph if you don't prevent it.

Using coach brakes and the Tow-Haul mode, I keep the speed from exceeding 70 mph. The higher you let the downhill speed increase to before using the brakes, the higher the kinetic energy buildup and the hotter the brakes will get trying to arrest the speed.

If you let the brakes get hot enough, they will begin to fade and if you let that happen, you now have a really dangerous situation.

[dsfriday]

Lord, 70 mph! Bill, you are to use to that airplane.. On those steep decents between Carbondale, 50-55 would be my limit.

[William Higbie]

on 6 percent down grade with my toad I start the downgrade around 40 and never let my speed exceed 55 and preferably 50. I have brakemaster breaking system for my toad and it does a great job. I would never think of using a toad in mountainous terrain without a automatic breaking system. Sometimes if I think I am breaking to (braking too?) much on a grade I will pull over and let the brakes cool. I am a worry wart about heat induced fade as things can get out of control very quickly.

[bill crommett]

Many years ago I learned the lesson about faded brakes. We were coming down the mountain in Montreal with a Ford v-8 pulling a small camping trailer when the brakes faded out. Fortunately there was a side street where I turned at a reckless speed and pulled over to cool off the brakes, thus avoiding a nasty accident and learning a good lessen.

[bcope01]

I flat tow a Smart Car that weighs half of what you are considering towing. I don't even know it is there.

Bill

[William Higbie]

My 2000 honda toad weighs 2200 lbs. With the automatic breaking (braking?) system it greatly lessons the push of the toad on the motorhome on downgrades. If I start down the downgrade at 40 mph and set the gear and occasionally pump the break (brake?) I don't seem to have a problem with fade. I never let the motorhome exceed 55 mph on downgrades. Safety first. I am not sure I would be happy towing anything at 3400 lbs without a diesel motorhome. I don't think my gas powered born free would be real good climbing mountain grades with that kind of weight.

[bill crommett]

Sam: I can't discuss brake fade with caliper brakes, but with the drum brakes I grew up with it is simple thermodynamics. When the brake shoes rub on the drums it creates friction to slow or stop the axle from turning. Friction causes heat and the heat expands the brake drum and it becomes too far from the brake shoes thus lessening the power of the rubbing friction. That is not good.