Cold Weather Camping (Again)

[shezonit]

But you'd have to unscrew it ,right? One can put cards and cash in a opaque envelope and place that under the shelf paper in one of cabinets or drawers. Only problem is remembering which one.. You could also put this inside a folded towel in a stack of towels,etc. There is also the food trick- you put this envelope down the side of a box of cereal or pancake mix etc. Many choices. Just don't throw that box out.
I've driven a camper van and ridden a motorcycle to and through rural and remote Mexico several times with no problems. The military checkpoints sometimes make a show of looking through, but they seem more curious than anything else.

[Mike Astley]

Yes, there are two screws. It takes less than a minute to open but you wouldn't want to put anything there that you frequently access. Just a nice hidey-hole if you're looking for one.

I also use a fire-proof pouch for the extra cash, credit cards, and photo copies of passports..protection in case the whole kit and kaboodle burned down.

[Dallas Baillio]

I removed the screws and attached it with Velcro. I too store important documents there -- passport, etc.

[al1florida]

I believe this is just to allow cooling of the converter(or is that thing an inverter?)
Anyway, it has nothing to do with the furnace. If you look inside your underbed storage from the outer side door, you can see the furnace to the right and the silver ducts that come off it. The longest one goes to the bathroom. I only have 2 more- short ducts that go to round vents at foot of bed and top of stairwell. A clean design, except front of coach can get a bit cool. Then it's time for the down throw.

It is a "converter". It converts 120V household power to 12V to run your lights & keep your house batteries charged.

An "inverter" is used to invert 12V Direct Current power from your house batteries into 120V AC household power to run your TV, computers, keep your laptops charged, etc. I don't believe BF offers an inverter as an option on their RV's. That could have changed in the last year or two.

[Ray]

Love the comments - I like the idea of a a cubby hole behind the vent - and the idea of velcro - I dont think anyone ram sacking the inside would notice velcro or even think about trying it - Thanks everyone.

[Mel Wilbur]

Love the comments - I like the idea of a a cubby hole behind the vent - and the idea of velcro - I dont think anyone ram sacking the inside would notice velcro or even think about trying it - Thanks everyone.

Unless the "bad guys" read our postings.

[Ray]

Not sure what to think about that - Do you think there are any organized crime rings that are specificly targting Born Frees, that are daily reading these posts so they can get the one up on getting one credit card?

[shezonit]

I'm back in Montana for the month of December and was that a mistake!!! We've had over a week of sub zero weather, worse than any I remember in 20 yrs I have lived here.
I keep looking at the weather in AZ and NM, seeing night time temps in the 20's and low 30's. I'll be back there after Jan 5th and am thinking of staying warm, really warm.

*** I'm wondering what is the best insulation for under the mattress on the rear permanent bed- closed cell foam camping pads or the same foil some of us put in our windows? ***

What have you used?

[stevek]

What about rigid foam insulation sheets under the mattress?
Very high in R value.
Home Depot/ Lowes has 4x8 sheets. Reasonable price. Easy to cut.
It may compress somewhat with weight.
Maybe a sheet of thin plywood over the top?
They come in varying thickness, up to about 2 inches I think.
Foil backed will reflect body heat.

Cold here too.
Coldest I can remember.
I am on the CA/ OR border. Elev 4200.
Was a MINUS 20.... this morning.
Just barley above Zero at noon.

[shezonit]

Hi Steve-- I'm at 3000 ft and we had similar temps. I can't say I am enjoying it.

The problem (for me) re that rigid insulation... once it warms up, in March , in Arizona, you cant fold it up and stick it under the bed like closed cell or foil. (of course that underbed storage is gonna reach critical mass one day...)

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

Dallas it is true that flowing water prevent freezing to some degree.

So, why don't we explore the following idea:

A small circulation pump to be installed on a pipe near the water heater (less noise) and a valved bypass behind the shower wall (RSB units). Thus, with the water heater and pump (could be cycled to save AH) ON, the most vulnerable part of the plumbing would be protected.

Oliver,
I like this idea a lot I think you're onto something. Can we take to the next step

A few years back I worked on a project with our local Habitat for Humanity. Unlike the RV, the house was extremely well insulated - but, unlike the house, the RV is very small - this might work. The house had PEX integrated into the slab floor and it was attached to a small recirculating pump on the house's water heater. The recirculating pump was very low AC usage (~300ma) and was of the type typically used to recirculated hot water through the lines so the users never had to wait for hot water to get from the wh to the tap. It was controlled by typical furnace wall thermostat. This house had NO furnace. The water heater controlled the hot water to the taps and heated the house. It's still running today and is very, very efficient.

If we take Oliver's idea and add a radiator(s) to the RV and attach it near the end of the hot water distribution line, connect the recirculating pump to the thermostat (and inverter) we have: 1. eliminated a very inefficient (and loud) furnace. 2. Circulated heat to all of the plumbing lines to keep them from freezing. (Just by keeping the hot water line in close proximity to the cold line I think it will provide protection to both lines as well as the compartment/raceway.) 3. provided a clean, quiet and efficient convection heater for the living quarters. Wow

My blind spot is I don't know how efficient the RV WH is.

Mike

[Ray]

very interesting concept - I am going to have to think about this

My big complaint is that all the heat source's in the BF is in the back 1/3, there is no good way to run a duct to the front of the rv from the furnace and the heat from the AC unit isnt much, and is also hard to push forward, so you basicly have to set a fan up or put a 3rd heater (110v) heater in the front of the RV

with this idea it would be relactivly easy to get a pex feed and return to the front and use a small base type radiant heater - circulating pump would have to be 12v

also need to do the math on the BTU's and recover rate on the water heater - also would need some kind of varible throtling valve - I think

But I like the concept - very interesting - and a good time to give this some thought as its suppose to get down to about -23 wind chill tonight

Thanx

[shezonit]

Fascinating to hear about the house with warm floors and no furnace.....
Radiant floors on the cheap.

As for installing all this in a Born Free.... Where does one get a tiny radiant heater that takes water? I'm wondering if the RV water heater is as efficient as one of those catalytic heaters. Just the convenience of having to only run one appliance for heat would be nice.
And you two will be at the BF Rally in Tucson to demonstrate and install this system, right?

[Virgil and Anne Dutton]

I did an experiment like Oliver suggested a couple years ago. I have an enclosed, fully insulated, cargo trailer, 6’ wide x 12 feet long x 6.5’ high inside, in which I have built fold down bunk beds on one side wall. Anne calls it my “man cave”. I pull this trailer behind the BFT to carry my ATV and/or as an extra bedroom for the Grandkids if we take them along. I also pull it behind my Ford Super Duty 4x4 when I go hunting or just want to get out into rougher country than I want to take the BFT. A couple years ago I rigged up an experiment where I used an RV water heater, which I put outside, and hooked it up to a 5 gallon propane tank. I plumbed it with a small 12V circulation pump, through the trailer wall to a radiator, which was actually a fairly large engine oil cooler. I positioned the radiator horizontally, about 18” above the floor, with a whisper fan below to blow air vertically through it. It actually worked pretty well and kept the chill off inside, when the outside temperature was in the 20’s. As far as efficiency goes, a lot of combustion heat is exhausted to the outside, just like an RV furnace, so you go through propane pretty fast. I used it several times but then dismantled it and returned to a catalytic heater. In my opinion the catalytic heater is hard to beat.

Virgil

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

As for installing all this in a Born Free.... Where does one get a tiny radiant heater that takes water?

$30 @ Home Depot for a 3' baseboard radiator.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Fi ... qk8DtJBHh4

I found a Laing recirculating pump for $185. It's got a flow of about 2 gals/min and AC current draw of 100 ma which is no problem for the inverter or batteries especially when compared to the furnace fan (7A ) However, when using the electric heating element in the water heater (1400W?) efficiency would likely exceed the cat heater (no vent required)

I doubt that, on propane, it would be nearly as efficient as a cat heater because of the burner's outside exhaust but it would be safer and would also protect the water lines. The operation could also be made quite simple - easier than managing a furnace and water heater.