Cold Weather Camping (Again)

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Ray

Post by Ray »

When folks are talking about a cat heater are you refering to a LP cat heater?

Huge problem with any ventless LP heater is the amout of water put in the air as a combustion by product of the LP - a friend put a ventless LP heater in his boat one year and it was like a rain forest in there, he had to run a large dehumidifier to keep things in check. I put a vented LP furnace in my boat, I went thru allot more LP but didnt have the moisture problem.
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Mike Jean Bandfield
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Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

DUH...
http://www.aquahot.com/
:shock:

I can't find pricing or availability for aftermarket applications. (Might not be sized appropriately for the class C market - yet.) The 400D/LP looks to be about twice the size of our little WHs but should fit in the compartment. Diesel or LP? - can't decide; but, "I want one." :D
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
Ray

Post by Ray »

Called the company but no one was available to talk to me (must all be selling units - lol) any how I had to run but will try and call them back when I can - I am interested in cost of base unit and how much each air handler costs - would think about 3 or 4 small ones would do it - also didnt understand the fuel consumption specs - but that may have been my computer screwing things up again.

Did you happen to get any costs? looks like a great system - which probably means a big price - not sure

But sure looks like the sweet answer - lines could probably all be under floor - heated floor?

I think the new BF's have a heated floor option - does anyone know if that is electric? I would sure want a system that could operate with out 110V
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whemme
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Post by whemme »

Ray,

It is my understanding that Aqua-Hot heating systems are pretty much standard on upper crust diesel pusher Class A motorcoaches. The diesel engine's coolant runs thru the Aqua-Hot system to provide heat when driving down the road. Some Aqua-Hot systems contain a boiler (2nd method) using engine fuel to heat the water. And the 3rd method is to use 110 VAC shoreline power to provide heat when hooked up in a campground.

To confirm the above, the following statement was copied from the Aqua-Hot website: Depending on the vehicle, liquid is heated by the vehicle's engine system, the Aqua-Hot boiler system or AC shore power – or a combination. The result is a tremendous increase in operator comfort.

You made the following statement in your post above: I would sure want a system that could operate with out 110V. If you are thinking of powering this kind of heating system using an inverter off of your house batteries, it would take a very high capacity inverter and it would drain your batteries very quickly.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
shezonit

Post by shezonit »

I was under the impression the water heater in my 1992 is propane only. ?
Or is it electric if I am plugged in? There is no switch inside to choose.
I'm in Montana right now and BF is in Arizona, so I can't check the manual.
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Mike Jean Bandfield
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Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

The Aqua-Hot systems are scaled for large class A's. It is versatile, fast and quiet comfort for luxury motorcoaches. The room/compartment heat exchangers use electric fans and the heat exchanger off the boiler is designed to be an on-demand device. At ~50K BTU/Hr it would be overkill in a class C. The boiler unit can not be installed in the living quarters. It also requires venting and access perimeters that would not be easy to deal with on a retrofit - though the overall area required would be less than the BF's furnace and water heater space.
<editorial on>
I really like the overall design and options of this product and hope the manufacturers will scale the technology to the class B/C RVs. As we have discussed, with a little forethought and the use of passive convection heat exchangers, I believe this kind of system would become the RV standard due to its ease of use, safety, reliability and super efficiency. We can help by letting the RV industry know there is a market for this kind of product. If they do it right RVers will reward them for quality, innovative and efficient systems that work equally well on or off the grid.
<editorial off>

Mike
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
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Mike Jean Bandfield
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Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

shezonit wrote:I was under the impression the water heater in my 1992 is propane only. ?
Or is it electric if I am plugged in? There is no switch inside to choose.
I'm in Montana right now and BF is in Arizona, so I can't check the manual.
It is most likely propane only. The dual units were just coming to market in '92 and the electric was an option. Now they're pretty much standard. If you had the electric option there would definitely be a separate 120VAC switch to turn it on and off and a circuit breaker.
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
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Mike Jean Bandfield
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Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

Another mfr. Similar design, operation and targeted @ class A MHs for $3250 (without heat exchangers???)
http://www.precisiontemp.com/rv-and-tra ... d-trailer/
They also have an on-demand tankless WH for $1125.

Mike
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
shezonit

Post by shezonit »

Yes I thought it was propane only.

As for these systems.... Pretty spendy. However hot water radiant heat would be sooooooo nice vs noisy, dusty furnace. The propane catalytic heater is somewhere in the middle....

As for tankless heater being $1100. , yikes. This is gas/electric? I bought a tiny electric tankless in Thailand for about $100. It works if the intake water is not too cold. Doesn't work in Montana where the cold water comes in the house at about 34 degrees....

I'm surprised that more RVs don't use engine heat to heat water. Then you'd arrive at campsite with a tank of hot water.
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Mike Jean Bandfield
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Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

shezonit wrote: Yes I thought it was propane only.
They come in various configurations. They use propane or diesel fuel (diesel = 35% more BTU's than propane) and they have optional electric heaters that work on shore power. Since they are tankless I'm not sure they can use engine heat - but they can preheat a diesel engine (very cost effective - a diesel uses a lot of fuel warming up and won't reach operating temps idling)
shezonit wrote: As for these systems.... Pretty spendy. However hot water radiant heat would be sooooooo nice vs noisy, dusty furnace. The propane catalytic heater is somewhere in the middle....
I don't like the cat heaters, they're fussy, smelly, spotty and dangerous -but they don't run down the batteries.
shezonit wrote: I'm surprised that more RVs don't use engine heat to heat water. Then you'd arrive at campsite with a tank of hot water.
With on-demand tankless it wouldn't be necessary. And if you did have a tank you'd still need a heat exchanger. Probably not a good ROI on that feature.

I sure am curious how our simpler configuration (i.e., circulation pump, 6 gal Suburban WH, and a couple of Home Depot $30 hot water radiators) would work in a class C. I wish I had the time and RV junk yard :wink: to experiment.
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
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Dallas Baillio
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Post by Dallas Baillio »

At the BF homecoming last June I was told by another BF owner that the tankless systems waste a lot of water. Don't know how or why. What are the downsides of tankless?
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
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Mike Jean Bandfield
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Post by Mike Jean Bandfield »

Dallas Baillio wrote:At the BF homecoming last June I was told by another BF owner that the tankless systems waste a lot of water. Don't know how or why. What are the downsides of tankless?
Here's what I've found out so far: They claim 35% better efficiency than the tank - but they also tell you not to take navy showers stating that frequently turning the water on and off is an inefficient use of the on-demand system. But for those of us with 35 gallon water tanks that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul. (I also suspect their 35% number assumes their competitor is using a pilot light.)

In the Born Free, I get up in the morning and turn on the WH. In ten minutes it is just right for my shower without needing to adjust the cold/hot mix. I probably use about ~2 gallons with my navy shower. Then I turn off the WH and after lunch it is still warm enough to do the dishes. Then we turn it on in the evening for a few minutes to do dishes and its still hot at bedtime. While we were building our house, we lived on the property in the Born Free for about 5 months. During that time we routinely went ~5 days before needing to dump and refill with water. That's pretty efficient.

When I do the dishes, it bugs me to watch all the water going into the grey tank while I'm waiting for the hot water to make its way to the faucet. With the on-demand system it would probably take a few seconds longer.

I believe the WHs we use in the Born Free are a good balanced approach to the use of propane, 120vac/12vdc and water. The furnace, however, is a different story. :( I am very curious how well the 6/10 gallon water heaters would work with passive baseboard type radiant heaters and a thermostatically controlled recirculating pump - like the Habitat house we built.
Mike & Jean
2005 26' RSS Diesel
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Mel Wilbur
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Post by Mel Wilbur »

Mike, I agree with you regarding the time it took for hot water to reach the kitchen sink. In our 26RB we learned a long time ago, for washing the dishes, to heat the amount of hot water needed on the stove which saved both on the fresh water and the amount going into the gray water holding tank. This was especially useful when traveling as we did stay at a lot of truck stops, rest areas, and camp Walmart.
Last edited by Mel Wilbur on Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mel & Connie
Ray

Post by Ray »

Mike

I agree, and maybe next summer I will work on this (to darn cold right now) - I am willing to spend the $$$ to play with this. I like doing these kinds of things. Nobody has done the BTU calculations yet - I will when I get a chance - but my guess is this will only work when temps get cool - You need allot of BTU's at below about 20 degrees with no insulation and allot of glass - but it sure would be nice to get rid of all the noise and complaicated heating combinations.

I replaced the furnace thermo with a digital - alot of people have done that - next I am going to add a thermostat to the heat strip in the A/C unit - I think with this being controled and the blower pulling in some of the hot air from the back furnace ducts and pushing it forward it may help keep the heat distribution inside more even

Although with the furnace kicking on and off, and the overhead blowing all the time its going to be allot more than white noise - But I will be warm.

Just havnt decided where the best place to place the thermostat for the A/C heat strip would be - Not sure if I should put it way up front or mid ships.
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