2008 24RB Generator stopped generating A/C

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kent0826

2008 24RB Generator stopped generating A/C

Post by kent0826 »

I was exercising the Generac 4700 with the AC on when it suddenly starting running without the AC load. The fan continued to run. I punched in a minute on the Microwave and it barely ran - like not enough power. Next day i started the generator and no AC power at all. Everything runs fine on shore power. I reset the 30amp breaker on the generator and reset the main breaker. Could the Transfer Switch be at fault? And if so where is it on the 2008 24RB? In 2009 i swapped in the Progressive Dynamics 4655. Is it part of the converter? If the switch is bad must it be replaced? ie can it be reset?

I also saw that it may be the Voltage Regulator. If the red LED is not lit then no output. Where is Regulator exactly?

Any ideas much appreciated.

Kent and Abby
2008 24RB
Tom and Jennifer Pierpan

2008 24RB generator stopped generating a/c

Post by Tom and Jennifer Pierpan »

We have the same problem with our generator, but still not quite resolved. Last fall ( see an Oct 24 2012 thread) we could not get our generator to run. Although we took it to a reputable repair service in Bangor, this did not get resolved in 2 visits. Bill Hemme and others helped us find the switch ( over the driver's seat) replacement as that was believed to be the issue. However, fall turned into winter and BF was stored. Currently our generator is at a certified Generac dealer/repair place in NH; we are home. It is not repaired yet but the voltage regulator now appears to be the problem ( no AC current in coach but it runs fine). This regulator is way in the back of generator and to service this, the generator had to be pulled out to work on it, at least per the repairman. We expect to go back and pick this up the first week in August. Will let you know the final results, but please be aware this may be the scenario.
Jennifer
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whemme
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by whemme »

The transfer switch (actually a relay) is mounted behind the metal frame of the Parallax 7345 Power Center. To get at it, the power center must be pulled out of its mount by at least 12 inches and hopefully when the BF factory installed it, they left at least 12" of service loop in all of the 12 VDC DC distribution wires to permit pulling it out that far. If not, then you will have to disconnect each of the 10 or so DC distribution wires from the DC fuse board so the power center can be pulled the required 12" to access the transfer switch.

Before doing that though, I recommend doing the following. The transfer switch (relay) makes a click noise when it switches AC power sources from shoreline power to generator power. If you start your generator and then go back and listen close to the power center, after around a 20 to 30 second delay, you should hear the transfer switch 'click'. If you hear that click then the generator is providing the 115 VAC into the switch to cause the click noise and result in the generator AC output now supplying the AC power to all AC circuits in the coach. If you don't hear that 'click' noise then either the generator is not putting out the 115 VAC or the relay contacts in the transfer switch have failed and as a result the 115 VAC power from the generator is not being connected to the power center's AC power bus.

I guess I would first recommend determining whether the problem is the generator itself. If not, then the problem may be in the transfer switch which can be kind of a bitch to change out.

Below are a couple of photos of the Parallax Model ATS transfer relay in its metal enclosure.
Attachments
Parallax ATS Automatic Line Generator Transfer Relay Photo 2.jpg
Parallax ATS Automatic Line Generator Transfer Relay Photo 2.jpg (90.12 KiB) Viewed 17718 times
Parallax ATS Automatic Line Generator Transfer Relay Photo 1.jpg
Parallax ATS Automatic Line Generator Transfer Relay Photo 1.jpg (161.8 KiB) Viewed 17718 times
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
tomzleapin
Posts: 485
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:15 am

Post by tomzleapin »

The regulator is behind the control panel on the generator. I found this info that may helpful: http://www.justanswer.com/small-engine/ ... ranks.html
Tom
2005 24' RB
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
New Hope, MN
kent0826

Post by kent0826 »

Jennifer,

Thank you for your input on this. I've located a certified Generac technician at a CampingWorld nearby so went ahead and made appointment for the end of the month. I would be interested in knowing the outcome and cost (if you don't mind) of the repair. I assume a faulty Transfer Switch was ruled out which I'm currently trying to assertain.

Bill,

Thank you for your always excellent input. Tomorrow I will test to hear for the 'click' upon starting the generator with shore power attached.

A. If I hear it then I can assume the generator is generating AC power. Could the switch still be bad? What to check next?
B. If I don't hear it then the switch still could be bad OR the switch could be okay but no output from the generator.

If I could be sure it was the Transfer Switch I could replace it myself. And would replace it with the ATS 301. It appears I would need to test the generator input to the Transfer Switch to rule it out as being defective. Is there a less easier way?

Tom,

Thank you much. Good info. If no input to the Transfer Switch then that would be the diagnostic path to undertake.
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whemme
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Post by whemme »

Kent & Abby,

If you hear that click sound approximately 20 to 30 seconds after starting the generator, that means that the generator is outputing AC voltage. However, it does not necessarily mean that the relay contacts inside the transfer switch box are working OK. Also, you don't have to be plugged into shoreline power to conduct this test. The 20 to 30 second delay timer in the transfer switch is activated by the generator output and is independent as to whether you are plugged into shoreline power or not.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
oliverpsmile
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Post by oliverpsmile »

It is very rare that generators loose the remaining magnetic field that starts the excitement of the generator. This fact is very often missed.

It is also possible that the excitement circuit is malfunctioning (there are a bunch of simple diodes and resistors).

This is just a reminder for the technician servicing the generator. The cure for lost magnetic field is applying some voltage from a battery. This is true for small as well as power plant generators.
Oliver P Smile
2005 26ft RSB
tomzleapin
Posts: 485
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:15 am

Post by tomzleapin »

Here's a link to download the service manual:
http://www.generator-parts.com/manuals/ ... 0E1881.pdf

The manual has a trouble-shooting section that may be helpful.
Tom
2005 24' RB
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
New Hope, MN
ddpjep

No 120 volts AC output from generator but engine runs

Post by ddpjep »

When my 2008 Generac stopped putting out 120 Volts AC even though the engine was running fine, a Generac factory technician found that there was poor contact at one of the spade lugs inside the generator. He crimped and reinstalled the the wire fitting and then all was good.
mike&linda
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:51 am

Onan RV GenSet service manual

Post by mike&linda »

For the other owners who have a Onan generator, attached is the Web location for service manual for the BGE BGEL models that were used on older Born Free coaches. The information should help on newer Onan units too, or you can search the Web or the Onan web site for the manual for your generator unit.

http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/pdf/manuals/965-0530.pdf
Last edited by mike&linda on Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
1990 26' RSB Diesel
kent0826

Post by kent0826 »

Well, just returned from having a Generac certified tech determine that the generator is putting out the required AC. And that the breaker is functioning ok as well. So that points the finger to the Transfer Switch. I did check for the "click" immediately after starting the generator and there was none. But still had to rule out the generator itself. I take it from Bill Hemme and others that have upgraded their converter the TS is somewhere in that area. Assume I need to remove the converter? Any advise is appreciated.
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whemme
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Post by whemme »

Kent & Abby,

Before blaming the transfer switch, there is another possibility that would cause the 120 VAC output of the generator not getting to the transfer switch. Born Free installed a hidden circuit breaker near the floor generally under the kitchen cabinets. Open all of the doors near the floor under the kitchen cabinets. Lay down on the floor and look for a gray metal 4" x4" electrical box mounted somewhere near the floor that contains a black or red circuit breaker button. Push the breaker button in firmly and if it clicks, that breaker had opened for whatever reason. When it clicks, that breaker is now reset and you should now start your Generac generator and see if you hear the delayed transfer switch click noise. If you do, I think you will be back in business.

The click sound from the transfer switch will not be heard immediately. There is a delay of 20 to 30 seconds before the transfer switch activates causing the click noise. Try it again and wait a least 30 seconds to hear the click noise. If you don't hear it, and if you checked out the hidden breaker above, then the transfer switch is suspect. It is mounted on the rear side of the Parallax 7345 Power Center and requires that you dismount it from the wood framework in you coach and hopefully be able to pull it forward at least 12" in order to access the backside of the power center where the transfer switch is mounted on the back side of the power center.

If the Born Free factory did not leave at least 12" of service loop in each of the approximately 10 DC circuit distribution wires to allow the power center to be pulled forward 12", then the work of accessing and replacing the transfer switch just got more difficult. You will have to remove and mark each of the wires from the DC fuse board in order to be able to pull the power center forward the required 12".
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
kent0826

Post by kent0826 »

Thanks Bill. There doesn't appear to be a breaker box. And the schematic doesn't indicate one as well. I can see the generator lead from the TS box snaking around the rear of the fresh water tank platform and then down through floor. I'll crawl under tomorrow to confirm it connects to the generator. Tomorrow I'll get started pulling out the TS in preparation for the ATS 301. There's a side door to the kitchen sink behind the rear captain's chair with full view of the rear of the converter and TS. Will see how it goes.
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whemme
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Post by whemme »

Kent & Abby,

Below are two photos of the hidden circuit breaker in my 2002 Born Free 26' RSB motorcoach. The breaker box is only approximately 4" above the coach floor under the kitchen cabinets and mounted on the front side of the carpeted wheel well. It is located under the wood floor holding the fresh water tank.
Attachments
Hidden Circuit Breaker Reset Button.jpg
Hidden Circuit Breaker Reset Button.jpg (245.25 KiB) Viewed 17328 times
Hidden Circuit Breaker Box.jpg
Hidden Circuit Breaker Box.jpg (241.9 KiB) Viewed 17328 times
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
kent0826

Post by kent0826 »

Thanks for the photos Bill. I guess they did away the breaker box in the later models.

Anyway I just completed installing the ATS 301 and all is well once again. It was a relatively smooth install as the whole converter assembly pulls out far enough to remove the old TS which was attached the rear of the upper portion of the assembly - behind the DC fuses and AC circuit breakers. The ATC 301 doesn't use wire nuts. All wires are attached to screw terminals which makes for a simpler and cleaner install.

Thanks everyone for your assistance.
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