If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

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oliverpsmile
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:46 pm

If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by oliverpsmile »

1. Keep the furnace/boiler going by all zone thermostats settings at 50F. What is the $$$ cost?
2. Drain the the entire plumbing system.
3. Fill the pipes with the pink stuff. :D

If other options exist let's share the experience.
Oliver P Smile
2005 26ft RSB
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by harrisgowing »

Oliver, we were away for 2 months last winter for the first time. Out of ignorance, all we did was turn the heat down to about 62. It turns out that we did the right thing because the winter in northern MI was brutal! We have a geothermal furnace so the water running into the house to run the furnace kept the outside line from freezing, which was a real problem for folks up here. Keeping the house relatively warm also helped to reduce the snow pack on the roof so we didn't need to have it shoveled. We will do the same thing next year. Our electric bill, which is our only utility, was about $150 less per month than it normally is when we are here. We also had someone check on the house every other week, and flush the toilets, advice of a plumber.
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
mockturtle

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by mockturtle »

The pink stuff need only go into the toilets and sink traps if you drain the pipes.
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ewagman
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Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by ewagman »

Not a sun bird, but similar needs. Since we use our 1 year ago purchased beach area home occasionally through the winter, we drain the outside shower supply pipes, disconnect and drain the outside garden hoses. We keep the house heated to 50 degrees, in summer air conditioned to 88. Fortunately no plumbing runs on outside walls. We turn the propane water heater to vacation, it is in an attached garage, and shut the water off. In all rooms with plumbing, the doors stay open, other doors are closed. We put bleach in all the toilet bowls and run the dishwasher before we leave. We put a battery tender on the car that stays, (keyless entry and alarm suck up current) and rotate it to the scooter, boat, and lawn tractor when we are there. Ethanol free, pure gasoline or aviation fuel goes into seasonal things. Last winter it went to 10 below, and the plumbing survived. This summer we are sealing and insulating the crawl space, which contains the plumbing. After I get some ceiling fans and other wiring done, I will have some more insulation blown in onto the attic floor. We used $1500 of propane for heat, hot water, cooking, and exercising the back up generator, a lot for maybe 5 days a month of winter use. Snow is rare, the sun takes care of the little bit that falls. Electric is $60 a month in winter, mid $100's in summer. If we had permanent WiFi, I'd install a Honeywell thermostat to pre-heat or pre-cool the house before we get there. As it is, it takes about two hours to get to temperature.

If your are going to be away for a long time, I'd cover the toilet bowls with kitchen plastic wrap to keep them from evaporating dry and getting sewer gas into the house. The bowl will possibly mildew, but that's easily cleaned. I believe in pink stuff in the Born Free, but I'd never use it in the house except in waste lines. If you might lose electric for a while, I'd turn off the water heater pilot, and drain the plumbing. We don't have that concern.

Sad to say, but our vacation house has almost eliminated our use of the Born Free, we might put it on the market next year, only 28000 miles old.
Ed & Beth
2003 Born Free 26' RSB: SOLD March 2016
replace by a house near the beach
oliverpsmile
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by oliverpsmile »

I have been experimenting for the last 3 years. First, I set the thermostats on the lowest 50 degree setting on a 4-zone radiant system. It cost me about 350 gallons of propane ($1.65/gal) during three months absence. Next, I consolidated all four zones under one thermostat and set it up to 42 degrees (the lowest for the thermostat) with some pilot lights and a thermometer. I was able to monitor remotely the temperature as well as the status of the heating system (boiler ON, Boiler Failure, Normal) through web cameras. Thanks to Colorado's sun (we are at 7000 ft elevation) my total propane consumption went down to about 15-20 gallons for the 3 1/2 months period. From 350 to 20 was a great improvement! In reality, the actual setting of the thermostat would be 33-35 degrees since the nearby transformer providing power to the switching relay and the pilot lights was "fooling" the thermostat. The lowest outside temperature was -1 degree (average 5-10).

Prior to that, I closed the main to the pressure tank (I have water cistern), switched the pump off and lowered the pressure to 0 psi. In case of rupture, this would not have caused water damage. The radiant under floor system had all water it needed.

This year I added another module (DIY) consisting or two Internet enabled relays, thermostat (70 degree settings) and 4 hours time limit relay (in case of lost Internet connection). It will allow me to start the heat in the house over the Net prior to our arrival. Or, If I were to see over the Internet cameras some drastic temperature drop (global warming you know :D ) I would be able to react accordingly and activate the heating system.
Oliver P Smile
2005 26ft RSB
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
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Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by harrisgowing »

I cannot say that you necessarily save money over the long run, but we are on our second geothermal furnace. It is an open system that runs off of our well. In the winter, our electric bill when we are at home is around $400 a month. Our neighbors are spending about $900 a month for propane. We live on Lake Michigan and face west with a lot of windows. Geo heat is very even and you have air conditoning in the summer from the same system. But, it is about twice as expensive to install as propane heating. We do really like it, however. Another downside is that you don't want to keep the temp super low because catching up uses the electric heat pump. Last winter our bill was under $300 when we were not here at about 62 degrees. We are about 2500 square feet on our main level. Something to consider if you have to replace a heating system.
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
oliverpsmile
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:46 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by oliverpsmile »

Chuck, I would not consider electricity for heating - geothermal or other - for the simple reason that electricity rates will inevitably go sky-high (green energy, EPA regulation, no nuclear etc.). Blackouts could be expected, like in California a few years back. Besides, heating pumps cause very high voltage dips on long cable runs (the case of a friend). My yearly propane bill is around $1400 (Once a year, in August, I fill a 1000 gallon tank). The boilers are modulated with efficiency of about 70% or higher. And I use propane for everything - including heating the pool. Monthly electric bill is about $60. No need for air conditioning. As I said before, the Colorado sun is a big help. The energy-efficient house I built also matters :D
Oliver P Smile
2005 26ft RSB
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ewagman
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Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:32 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by ewagman »

oliverpsmile wrote: It cost me about 350 gallons of propane ($1.65/gal) during three months absence. Next, I consolidated all four zones under one thermostat and set it up to 42 degrees (the lowest for the thermostat) with some pilot lights and a thermometer.
Your propane is 1/3 the cost of our Delaware rate, a great deal for you.
My sister built a new house with a ground loop geothermal system a few years ago. It has broken down several times, and more than all the anticipated cost savings went into repairs. I have heard stories of costly repairs with the multistage gas furnaces too. Sometimes simpler is better.
Ed & Beth
2003 Born Free 26' RSB: SOLD March 2016
replace by a house near the beach
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CuJo's Pride
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Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by CuJo's Pride »

We have a geothermal heat pump as well but we also put in a gas furnace as a back up. If for some reason our geo stops running (power outage) the gas backup furnace is set at 55 and will automatically start up. It's a pretty realible system. It is the air and furnace all in one.
Curt and Jo
Our Springer Spaniels - Betsy and Moxie
Member of The Born Free Leap'n Lions
"BeMo" is our 2004 26'RB
Trex 27 Speed Tandem Bicycle
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by harrisgowing »

We also have a back up propane furnace. Our first geofurnace had issues and its cost savings were lost in repairs. So far the newer one is much better. I would not swear that we save money overall but we do like the consistent and lower bills (than propane) in the winter months.
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
harrisgowing
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by harrisgowing »

Sam, our back up propane furnace is powered by an on demand propane generator. A generator to power the geofurnace would have been too large and too expensive. It was cheaper to install the propane furnace for that purpose. Our generator powers just enough to let us stay here if power goes out - heat, water pump, some wall plugs, microwave and tv and satellite. Unfortunately, we use it a few times every year for sometimes as much as a week at a time.
Chuck and Judy Harris
Oliver and Monty, the Cavaliers at the Rainbow Bridge; Timothy Dickens, the Cavalier puppy
2004 RSB
2015 Royal Splendor
Santana tandem bicycle
CANDE
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:52 pm

Re: If you are Sun Bird how do you winterize your house?

Post by CANDE »

As a Sun Bird, We drain outside hose connections only and set heating thermostats at 50 degrees.
We purchased a Freeze Alarm Telephone and it is connected to a local plumbing company. If the temperature in the house drops to 45 degrees his phone is automatically dialed and he has a house key to check and repair any problems found. We have used this system for 3 years and have not been dissatisfied to date.
Ed and Carol Freye
2016 Born Free 29' Splendor
Towing a 2014 Mini Cooper Coupe
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