E350 Steering Wander

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Bryan

E350 Steering Wander

Post by Bryan »

I have read with interest Bill's article about steering issues, I too am having problems with wander on my 1991 BF 24rb. There is much discussion and agreement with Bill regarding caster. I have bought the Ingalls 59400 bushings but the instructions do not refer to my 1991 E350. Does the vehicle already have caster and camber built into the axle? Is there a bushing already in place? The instructions suggest M over G to increase the caster to max without altering camber but a. there is no pinch bolt to align the letter G to and b. looking at the bushing it appears to gain the max camber M should be to the front of the vehicle for both drivers side and passengers side this would leave letter M inboard on the drivers side and outboard on the passengers side, is this correct?

What stops the bushing rotating when in place if there is no pinch bolt?

Finally I am in the UK so driving on the left should I make allowance for this?

Many thanks,

Bryan
bigdipper
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:13 pm

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by bigdipper »

Bryan wrote:I have read with interest Bill's article about steering issues, I too am having problems with wander on my 1991 BF 24rb. There is much discussion and agreement with Bill regarding caster. I have bought the Ingalls 59400 bushings but the instructions do not refer to my 1991 E350. Does the vehicle already have caster and camber built into the axle? Is there a bushing already in place? The instructions suggest M over G to increase the caster to max without altering camber but a. there is no pinch bolt to align the letter G to and b. looking at the bushing it appears to gain the max camber M should be to the front of the vehicle for both drivers side and passengers side this would leave letter M inboard on the drivers side and outboard on the passengers side, is this correct?

What stops the bushing rotating when in place if there is no pinch bolt?

Finally I am in the UK so driving on the left should I make allowance for this?

Many thanks,

Bryan
Bryan,
I cannot help with parts questions. However if you are doing the camber increase, we in the colonies would have caster on right .5 degrees more than on left. You should reverse that.
Good luck,
Ralph
Ralph
2011 24RB
Former 2001 23RK
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cmeadows
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by cmeadows »

Bryan,

You are right on target asking about the pinch bolts. Your 1991 E350 has kingpins instead of ball joints—that is why there are no pinch bolts. Unfortunately you will not be able to use the Ingalls 59400 bushings. In 1992, Ford started using pinch bolts to clamp an alignment bushing as an inserted collar around the top ball joint post. The Ingalls 59400 bushings are a double concentric arraignment that allows for maximum adjustability (i.e., more positive caster) in 1992 and up models.

In your 1991 model, you can check your kingpins for wear the same way you check for ball joint wear. If the kingpins are sloppy loose, you can replace the kingpins and bushings. If you do your own work, remove the spindles and take them, a new set of bronze bushings and new kingpins to an automotive machine shop that can remove the remnants of the old bushings, press in the new ones and machine them to match your new kingpins. After that, the reassembly work is not too difficult.

While you are at it on the front end work, you might want to check the radius arm bushings, draglink, and tie rods ends. If your E350 likes to wander, replacing the radius arm bushings can help solve that problem.

Good luck!
Chuck & Laura Meadows
'99 24RB PSD
Bryan

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by Bryan »

caster bushing bottom 002.jpg
caster bushing bottom 002.jpg (63.35 KiB) Viewed 17148 times
caster bushing 004.jpg
caster bushing 004.jpg (36.24 KiB) Viewed 17148 times
Hi, I will attach photos of what I can see, it looks like the Ingalls bushing or similar, if I have kingpins does this mean I cannot increase caster without bending the I beam axles?

I am sure I have read somewhere but of course now cannot find, an article which says pre April 1984 there was no caster and after that date presumably including my 1991 vehicle, some caster was built in but still not adjustable. I have the 1991 Ford workshop manual but it is not clear where the caster is built in, if the kingpin or spindle pin as it is described passes through the axle would that not make it impossible to adjust caster unless the axle was bushed and that could be replaced?
bill crommett

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by bill crommett »

As an interesting side item about alignment -- my 04 BFT handled beautifully until I noted some scuffing on the front tires. I had the coach re- aligned and there was no more scuffing -- but it no longer handles like it did before. Not bad, just not as good.
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cmeadows
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by cmeadows »

Bryan,

Your photos appear to show the grease caps on the top and bottom of the kingpin. It is good that they are installed and that the zerk fitting is not rusted—that means they may have received frequent servicing and that your kingpins may be in good shape. If your steering wheel returns to center after making a turn, your kingpins are probably fine. They will take grease better if the weight is removed from the wheel—place a jack on the axle close to the wheel.

There was 3 to 4 degrees of caster built into the axle design by Ford. Camber can be adjusted by bending the axles but I don’t know about caster. Big trucks use wedges to pitch the axle for caster. I have no experience with bending the axles to correct for alignment. You might try searching on one of the Ford Truck forums to learn more.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php
Chuck & Laura Meadows
'99 24RB PSD
lassen
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:56 am

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by lassen »

Bryan.....My 2005 24RB with 68000 miles was handling terrible. Two weeks ago had it in to truck front-end shop for a re-alignment. As it turned out the alignment was fine but the sway bar bushings were shot. Replaced both the hanger and end rubber bushings with neoprene bushings. Made all the difference in the world, it now goes straight down the road. I'm now able to drive 60mph down county highways and keep it in my lane.

Jack......
Jack & Jan
2005 24RB
Bryan

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by Bryan »

Thanks everyone for your input.

Stabiliser bushes are cheap and worth a go so I've ordered them also front shock absorbers I know one is misting.

The steering wheel does not return willingly to centre. The toe in was 0 and I've had an 1/8" toe in put on which has helped a bit but not much.

I found this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E5TZ3K064A-Ford ... 5afecfa180

Would it work?

Bryan
User avatar
whemme
Posts: 2110
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:05 pm

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by whemme »

Bryan,

Your statement that the steering wheel does not willing to return to centre in my opinion is a sure sign that your caster angle must be close to zero degrees. Positive caster angle is what causes your front wheels to want to self centre. A caster of + 5 degrees or more (up to 7 degrees maximum) is desirable for good self centering and steering stability.
Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
2016 VW Golf GTI - toad
Bryan

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by Bryan »

Thanks Bill,
I agree caster is the problem but my 1991 has kingpins so Ingalls bushings won't work what can I do?
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bfadmin
Site Admin
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:45 am

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by bfadmin »

Now you got me. Don't know if a truck frame shop could twist the twin I-beams to introduce some caster or not.
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Website Forum Administrators
(bfadmin-1) Dave Moffat - Primary Administrator
(bfadmin-3) Sandy Perley - Assistant Administrator
(bfadmin-2) Bill Hemme - Backup Administrator
(bfadmin) Email: bfadmin@bornfreervclub.org
tomzleapin
Posts: 485
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:15 am

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by tomzleapin »

Bryan wrote:Thanks everyone for your input.

Stabiliser bushes are cheap and worth a go so I've ordered them also front shock absorbers I know one is misting.

The steering wheel does not return willingly to centre. The toe in was 0 and I've had an 1/8" toe in put on which has helped a bit but not much.

I found this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E5TZ3K064A-Ford ... 5afecfa180

Would it work?

Bryan
I found this info for E350 van from Mitchell Repair:
"There is no manufacturer-approved method of camber adjustment. If caster adjustment is necessary, install Caster Service Kit (E5TZ-3K064-A) on radius arm to correct excessive caster split."

So it sounds like this should work.
Tom
2005 24' RB
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
New Hope, MN
MarkMR

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by MarkMR »

Bryan wrote:I have read with interest Bill's article about steering issues, I too am having problems with wander on my 1991 BF 24rb. There is much discussion and agreement with Bill regarding caster. I have bought the Ingalls 59400 bushings but the instructions do not refer to my 1991 E350. Does the vehicle already have caster and camber built into the axle? Is there a bushing already in place? The instructions suggest M over G to increase the caster to max without altering camber but a. there is no pinch bolt to align the letter G to and b. looking at the bushing it appears to gain the max camber M should be to the front of the vehicle for both drivers side and passengers side this would leave letter M inboard on the drivers side and outboard on the passengers side, is this correct?

What stops the bushing rotating when in place if there is no pinch bolt?

Finally I am in the UK so driving on the left should I make allowance for this?

Many thanks,

Bryan

I TRIED TO FIND ANSWERS (website link deleted) , SO YOU MIGHT FIND THIS USEFUL BRYAN.

Note: Website link in above sentence deleted by website administrator (bfadmin-2) as the link connected to a Mercedes dealership, a commercial website with no useful info relative to this topic thread.
bigdipper
Posts: 353
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 3:13 pm

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by bigdipper »

A sort of classical opinion on this subject is that in addition to setting camber at plus 5 degrees or so the right side (US) should be 1/2 degree more than left. ^ For you, this should be reversed. I have no advice on how to install the bushings. Good luck.
Ralph
Ralph
2011 24RB
Former 2001 23RK
Bryan

Re: E350 Steering Wander

Post by Bryan »

Thanks Ralph and Judy,

I have since learned that the reason the bushings won't fit is because my RV is a 1991 at which time Kingpins were used 1992 onwards ball joints were in use and that is why the bushings won't fit. The only way of altering the caster on my vehicle so I am told is to have a specialist bend the axles, sounds tricky and I don't know anyone in the uk that could undertake such a task.

I'm getting the kingpins removed next week I'll let you know how I get on. Some people seem to think they are critical for handling.

Cheers,

Bryan
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