2nd New Tranny

[CuJo's Pride]

Last June when we went out to Colorado our Transmission failed. We were stranded in Wheatfield Colorado for a week while they built us a new one and shipped it out. All was well. Our BF was stored all winter and we decided to head south in March. Got as far as Winfield Alabama and the transmission failed again.. We were towed into a transmission shop in Winfield. Fortunately we had bought an extended warranty last year. So they ordered a new tranny and after it got there and they got the Colorado transmission out they discovered that the Colorado transmission shop left some dowels out. Well that created another problem, the fly wheel. It was in bad shape and it had to be replaced so they found a new one and put everything together. We took off after a week and headed further south again. We got to Pell City Alabama about 2 hours away and here we go again. The transmission is acting up so we headed back to Winfield. They weren't exactly thrilled to see us but oh well. They scratched their heads. Our BF kept getting hot, so they ended up puttting a new radiator in. Turns out they overfilled the new transmission by 6 qts of fluid.. The company sent fluid but they thought they should "overfill it a little". So once they drained that off, we're back on the road.. we left not paying a dime, thank goodness. Newly retired as of Oct. 3, 2016, hope this isn't the beginning of what's ahead !

[whemme]

Did the new radiator fix the over heating problem? Do you think that overfilling the transmission with fluid was causing your engine to overheat? I would not think so.

I had an interesting cooling problem develop in my 2002 E450 BF with the V10 engine. At around 98,000 miles the cooling system would not heat up to the normal 190 degrees. My Scan Gauge was only showing coolant temperatures in the 160 to 170 degree range and the temp gauge in the panel was indicating somewhat low. So, I had an independent repair shop flush the system and install and new after market thermostat and coolant. That seemed to fix the problem until I headed west to California from Iowa. When I got to the 6% uphill grades on I-15 between Las Vegas and Tulare, CA on an 85 degree day, my engine started to over heat pulling up those hills. I pulled over just before the temp gauge in the instrument cluster hit red line and with the Scan Gauge indicating 250 degree coolant temperatures. This happened three times before finally arriving in the flat lands of the San Jaquan valley south of Tulare. There I had the new after market thermostat removed and replaced with a new OEM Ford thermostat. Problem solved! My recommendation is not to use an after market thermostat in your Ford V10 engine.You may not see a problem until you need to lug the engine pulling up those 6% hills on warm days.

I have traveling out west in those hills on I-40, I-10, and I-15 for the last 13 years and previously have never seen the temperature gauge in the panel go above mid-scale no matter how hard the V10 engine was screaming going up those grades on warm days. The cooling system in the E450 for the V10 engine is very good if it has the right thermostat installed and there is nothing else wrong with the system. By the way, my coach now has 102,000 miles on it with the original transmission suffering the same abuse climbing those hills.

[CuJo's Pride]

I talked to the manufacturer and they said it can happen by overfilling it. They told us that by overfilling it, the extra fluid goes out the vent and the internal working of the transmission is getting air bubbles in it so the parts are not being lubricated as needed. We have gone over 1200 miles and the transmission hasn't heated up past the normal range. When it was overfilled the transmission got as hot as 289 so overfilling the fluids will cause your tranny to overheat. Remember they drained around 6qts of extra fluid out, it wasn't like an extra cup. When it was overfilled it was slipping and the overdrive light kept coming on. We thought maybe they'd want us to have it rechecked at another shop on our way home but they felt the numbers were really good. They put a bigger tranny in when they replaced it the 1st time and they upped it with a bigger pan this time so it should be able to handle about anything. It's running like a million bucks now. I know more about transmissions now than I thought i ever would.. We're Looking forward to traveling without spending anytime at a transmission shop! But if we do happen to have a problem we'll be calling Pete.

Jo

[whemme]

I was referring to your following statement: Our BF kept getting hot, so they ended up puttting a new radiator in. I guess you were not clear but I thought you were saying that your engine was getting hot and they replaced the engine radiator to fix that issue. Always best to be absolutely clear so there is no misunderstanding.

[CuJo's Pride]

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. It's been a very trying week !

Jo

[cmeadows]

Curt & Jo,

I hope your transmission troubles are now behind you. Thank you for posting the messages on your transmission problems. As painful as it must be for you, your messages are helping others. As a result of your post last year, I decided to do something about the noisy torque converter in our Born Free.

At 110k miles, our transmission still shifted fine but the noise in the torque converter was bothersome. I didn’t like the thought of a transmission failure while sitting on a boat ramp. A torque converter failure means total failure allowing no vehicle movement under power. I decided to have the transmission rebuilt and chose Brian’s Truck Shop in Lead Hill, Arkansas to do the work.

Brian runs a top notch business and service operation. Through lots of hands-on experience, he has learned what goes wrong in the 4R100 and 5R110 Ford transmissions. He improves them by replacing the weak parts with better parts—many of which are his design. Brian’s shop builds one transmission per day and has a waiting list. Our build day was in January. They removed the transmission in the morning, disassembled it and started the rebuild process. At one point, there were 4 people working on it in three different areas. Jeremy does a great job rebuilding and modifying the valve body. Brian does the internal clutches, drums, shafts, bearings and everything else.

I watched in the shop while they worked. Brian has incredible patience, answered all of my questions, suffered through my picture taking, and took the time to explain the improvements of the new parts going into the transmission. After it was rebuilt and installed, I had a test drive with Brian at 3:30pm and was on the road for home at 4:30pm. The service day included an offsite restaurant lunch break. I have never seen such smooth coordination in a laid-back and productive environment. If you have no desire to hang out in the shop, they have a nice waiting room. I was only in the waiting room/office to pay the bill at the end of the day.

The BTS transmission works great with smooth, brisk shifts. It’s an incredible difference over the stock transmission. I toured the Ranger Boat factory in Flippin the day before the transmission appointment and boondocked that night in the BTS parking lot. They even offered me a power cord. It was very well worth the drive from Ohio to have this done. I have friends locally in the tranny business but chose to drive to Arkansas—Brian knows his stuff. I’d bet there are only a handful of people that know as much as he does about the 4R100 and 5R110 Ford transmissions. There are probably fewer yet that can match his transmission build quality, service and warranty.

[MarkB]

Was there anything done with the tranny cooler while at BTS? Did he feel it was adequate?

[cmeadows]

Mark -- That’s an excellent question. I fully expected Brian to tell me a larger tranny cooler would be required. When I talked with him on the phone before the appointment, Brian said the vans do not require a larger tranny cooler (he’s done lots of ambulances). He said vans have enough of a cooling problem as it is without adding a larger transmission cooler to cover more of the radiator.

Brian said that vans have the fluid hoses connected to the bottom of the transmission coolers and that debris gets flushed out of the cooler and caught by the tranny filter in the pan. He said that F-Series trucks are different in that the lines connect to the top of the cooler whereby the debris gets trapped in the bottom of the cooler and never gets flushed out. He requires trucks to have a new cooler installed with his transmissions.

The last time I changed the tranny fluid, roughly 30k miles before the rebuild (I use Mobil 1 ATF) I added a Magnefine inline transmission filter up front near the cooler. Brian didn’t like that and said it had to go. They removed it and replaced the line that I cut to splice in the filter. Ford dealers often install the same filter with transmission service. Brian said the filter restricts flow and when they start to plug can burn up a transmission by opening the cooler bypass valve in the transmission. Not good. Lesson learned. I won’t install another one.

A couple years ago on the Yellowhead Highway in Saskatchewan, we drove several miles through bugs the size of hummingbirds. Nothing overheated but I did notice my engine coolant temp running 10 degrees higher on the ScanGauge. I also told Brian that I planned to replace the water pump and radiator hoses (they are 18 years old). Brian said while the radiator is out, to gently use a powerwasher a couple feet away and clean the radiator spraying from the back side toward the front. He said to do the same with the transmission cooler and A/C condenser. He said that I wouldn’t believe the dirt that will be left behind on the driveway after cleaning the coolers and that the improved cooling will be worth it. I haven’t done that yet but plan to before traveling this summer.

Brian also asked how I know the transmission temperature (1999 models didn’t have factory transmission temp sensors for the CAN Bus or gauges.) I told him that I don’t, but that I’ve never had a problem. (My transmission did not grenade and the fluid was in pristine shape when I had it rebuilt.) So I got to thinking about it and decided to add a pyrometer (for diesel exhaust) and a transmission temperature gauge in the dash. In the photo below, the tranny temp gauge is lower right in blue showing 152 degrees.

[MarkB]

Thanks Chuck, good information there.

I have a couple Magnefine's sitting out there, guess that's where they'll stay. Was also researching something similar, using a magnet on an oil filter, Champion who makes the filter for air machines doesn't recommend them under the thought that collected debris could possibly dislodge if the filter went into bypass, but this was for engine oil filters.

I did install a Scangauge to monitor the tranny temps, believe my model 2012 starts cooling at 170F, otherwise bypass. My line runs through the engine radiator cooler then air/air cooler, which doesn't look too large and sits right behind the big Ford emblem. I'll be able to keep an eye on the coolant temp now though.

On another forum, a gentleman who was supposed to have some pretty good credentials stated you could run the fluid temp up to 220F all day, and 250F no more than 30' at a time. Did Brian have any suggestions for fluid temp?

[cmeadows]

Jeremy put a magnet in the pan before he installed it. I’m pretty sure there was one in the old pan, too. Brian said the Motorcraft pan filters do a great job. His service instructions are to drain and drop the pan at 30k miles and replace the filter. If the fluid and everything looks good, reinstall the pan and add enough fluid to replace what was drained – which will be roughly 7qts of Mobil 1 ATF.

I didn’t ask Brian about temperature numbers. It was before I had a temp gauge and I didn’t think to ask. The temp numbers you quote “220F all day and 250F for no more than 30 minutes” sounds like they came from Mark K, a well respected former Ford transmission engineer. He also says if it gets over 250F to find a safe place to pull over and fast idle in park or neutral to cool the transmission. Those are the numbers that I will be using.

[MarkB]

Yup, Mark K.

[CuJo's Pride]

Chuck,

I'm so glad our experience helped out. They did put a bigger pan on our new transmission. The guy in Alabama said it was for more fluid capacity. I guess we'll see. Curt just did a total brake job on the rear, rotors, calipers etc so they should be good. Our coach has 53,000 miles on it. Hopefully we're due for a relaxing no problem trip.. We're heading back out to Colorado for a concert at Red Rock so fingers crossed everything goes well..

Jo

[MarkB]

I drained the tranny fluid (no flush) on mine and replaced the filter, roughly $100, took 9.5 qts of fluid with V10 and 5r110W tranny fyi. After you drain the fluid there is some still in there as the plug is higher then the bottom so replace the plug when you drop the pan, then put the pan directly under the tranny cause when you drop the filter another qt. or so is going to come spilling out. Could be a big mess if you are not careful.