So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

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stevek
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:33 pm

So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by stevek »

Any suggestions? Brands? Is Sprinter the wave of the future? Is Ford 350/ 450 old school?
Gas prices are going back up. Will they ever stop making the V10?
Not many factory direct MHs? And ways to save money.
Saw this for $115K brand new. Seems like a great price!! :D
Factory Direct. Its a Phoenix Cruiser.
Has Liquid Springs... like BF use to offer as an option.
Wonder what the quality is like compared to BF? THANKS :D
http://www.motorhome.com/top-stories/ph ... 1_05162018

PS...Anybody have Liquid Springs and how is it?
Steve
2011 Born Free 22 foot RSK, rear side (corner) kitchen, E350, 29k miles.
Our first motorhome. Lots to learn. Thanks.
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Roger H
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Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Roger H »

I'll probably keep my Born Free until the wheels fall off because I'll likely never be able to afford anything similar on a medium-duty truck chassis (Super-C) and mine will continue to run as long as parts are available for the Kodiak.

That said, AND being a Super-C lover, I'm leaning toward the Freightliner M2/S2RV chassis coaches catch my eye; Dynamax, Jayco Seneca, Renegade Valencia and similar. Of course, I'll likely never be able to afford one; but that said I never thought I could ever be able to afford a Born Free 32 RQ either.
'06 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
jlef123
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by jlef123 »

I was told a few years ago by some folks at the Born Free factory that Ford would be discontinuing the E series cutaway chassis in 2020. The E series was first introduced in 1961. According to wikipedia we are now in the 4th generation which was introduced in 1992. The Triton V-10 was introduced in 1997. In my opinion the E series is kind of showing its age and Ford is not going to modernize it. If I were buying a new coach today, it would not be on a E series cutaway chassis.

My 2015 Splendor has liquid springs. I think they vastly improve the handling of the e-series chassis. The coach rides like a limousine. It handles incredibly well compared to my 2002 coach which I had modified with Bilstein shocks, heavy duty Helwig rear sway bar and front end alignent per Bill Hemme's specs. I can control the degree of softness of the ride and raise or lower the back end of the coach. No more scraping the drag wheels when going into a gas station and I rarely have to drag out the yellow plastic leveling pads. A friend of mine once followed me in his 2002 coach and complained that I was going to fast. Not so, I never exceeded the speed limit the liquid springs gave me that much security on the curvy road. Everything they say in the article about LS is absolutely correct. The cons of Liquid Springs: they do add a net increase of about 200# to the weight of the rear end, finding someone who can work on them can be problematic. In 4 years of using them I only recently had to seek out someone who could do a repair. The factory is incredibly supportive. I can't say enough about the help that they gave me with this one repair. Would I buy them again? yes. They are well worth the comfort and security they give you.

The Phoenix cruiser you reference looks like a nice coach and the company has a good reputation. Would I buy that model? absolutely not. Did you check out the "ROCCC". It is 1040#. How much do you and your wife weigh? Subtract that from the ROCCC and you get how much cargo weight you can safely carry in that 31' coach. I would end up with 765# of CCC, not much for my stuff. What about the weight of the full tank of propane? Think about it. The next time you look at a new coach check the door jamb or the glove box for a narrow yellow strip of paper that has the CCC of the chassis. That is the Cargo Carrying Capacity. Then you have to subtract out the weight of water, propane and passenger weights to get the ROCCC. The GVWR of the vehicle is fixed you can't change it. According to the experts in this field a very high percentage of coaches on the road today are overweight. That is a major cause of tire blowouts. This particular coach needs to shed a few pounds. I have been impressed by the CCC of some of the coaches that I have seen built on Sprinter chassis. Not so much on other chassis. I also like the advanced electronic safety features that are on the new Sprinters.
Joel & Sandy
2002 26' RB
2015 27' Splendor
2020 Coachmen Beyond
Dave Rotelle
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Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Dave Rotelle »

Steve,
We had two Born Free's prior to purchasing a new Phoenix Cruiser in 2016. The Cruiser model we had was very similar to the model featured in MH magazine.
In two years we traveled over 35,000 miles with the Cruiser with very few issues. The folks at the factory treated us well and they were very accommodating with regards to making custom changes.
Primarily because of the size of the PC 2910 and two of our children getting married this year we recently sold our Phoenix Cruiser. Excited to say we are now VERY happy Born Free owners again.
I'm just sold on the Born Free I don't believe anything comes close to comparing to it's quality.

Dave
2013 Freedom Front Lounge.
Purchased November 2017.
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stevek
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:33 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by stevek »

Thanks everybody for the very informative comments. I will always own a motorhome. And just trying to understand what direction I should be looking, and what the future will hold for motorhomes.
Steve
2011 Born Free 22 foot RSK, rear side (corner) kitchen, E350, 29k miles.
Our first motorhome. Lots to learn. Thanks.
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Steve W
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:00 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Steve W »

Steve

We are on are second BF and like everyone else on this forum, we like it very much. A replacement for us, should it become necessary would be a Pleasure Way. They now offer a twin bed, dry bath, 22ft on a Mercedes chassis with the diesel engine. We prefer our 24RB, but as I said, should a replacement be necessary, the Pleasure Way would be our first choice.
Steve & Sue Wolfe / Born Free 24RB / toad
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Roger H
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 7:48 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Roger H »

stevek wrote:Thanks everybody for the very informative comments. I will always own a motorhome. And just trying to understand what direction I should be looking, and what the future will hold for motorhomes.
The future of motorhomes (actually all RVs,) as always, is dependent on the price of fuel.
'06 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
nrmcclain
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:33 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by nrmcclain »

Steve,
We spent a long time defining our needs and then evaluating motor coaches prior to purchasing a 2006 Born Free 24’ RB model. Once we saw and drove the BF 24’ RB nothing else came as close to our needs as to the quality, size, robust platform, floor plan, comfortable bed, hominess and drivability that we were looking for.
We now have about 77,000 miles on it and are shooting for 200,000 miles which we expect to get by careful adherence to published maintenance schedules and good care. If major components should fail and need to be replaced, we will consider what we have already spent on the coach as sunk costs and evaluate the cost of each major repair moving forward. Example: if the engine had a major failure, we would likely just repair or replace the engine and continue to use this well constructed coach.
If for some reason our BF coach was destroyed we would likely replace it taking the following steps:
• Replace it with a good used similar type BF if one was available.
• If a good used BF could not be located we would probably start looking for other quality manufactures with good sales and service reputations that sell factory direct and would likely include in our search the following:
o Coach House (30 years in business – factory direct sales)
o Lazy Daze (58 years in business - factory direct sales)
o Phoenix Cruiser (18 years in business – factory direct sales)
o There are probably others?
• If we had to replace our coach at some time in the future with other than a 24’ Born Free, it would be an exhaustive process checking specification details including reported CCC numbers as Joel points out above. As you probably know, even in coaches with decent CCC weight values, that CCC weight must still be reduced, if needed, so both maximum axle and tire weight ratings are not exceeded.
As far as the sprinter vs. E450 chassis, we are old school and like the robust platform of the still available E450. Yes the fuel mileage is not as good but we have decided the trade off is worth it. We average a shade less than 10 mpg driving about 58 mph and do not tow.
As for liquid springs, owners like Joel above report greatly improved comfort from reduced road vibration and better stability in cross wind situations. I have personally driven coaches with liquid springs and discussed their merits and cost with factory representatives and I agree with Joel that there is good improvement. However, since we have a great handling coach without the need for additional stabilizing equipment, and the fact that we try to only drive about 300 miles per day, we would probably not spend the $10K or so for them – but they are nice.
These are only our opinions and hope they help.
Nick & Dee Dee
2006 24’RB
jlef123
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by jlef123 »

Nick: I am interested in your thinking not being critical. Why do you specify factory direct coaches only. What is your rationale. Aren't there some coaches that are not factory direct like Leisure Travel that you would consider quality products? Not withstanding that Leisure Travel coaches are not based on a Ford chassis.
Joel & Sandy
2002 26' RB
2015 27' Splendor
2020 Coachmen Beyond
nrmcclain
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:33 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by nrmcclain »

Joel,
We really liked the Born Free manufacturing factory direct sales operation when we were looking for a coach. All at the same location you could see exactly how the coaches were constructed via a factory tour, get technical questions answered and work out a deal with the sales force all at the factory location. We liked talking to employees with many years of experience who knew their product. Additionally, we liked the idea of eliminating the cost of a dealership middleman from the sales price of the coach. I know much of that changed later when CT Dodgen started setting up dealerships around the country.
Our experience with rv dealerships was that the sales folks knew very little about the technical design characteristics of their units and would defer most of these questions back to the factory. Sometimes they would get back to us with an answer and sometimes not. One concern we always had was a report that some coaches were sold already over weight. So we would ask dealerships, how would we have to distribute the CCC weight (as stated on the MotorHome Weight Information Placard) throughout the coach to be able to actually load that stated amount of cargo in the coach without exceeding axle and tire limitations – no one ever had a clue. However, when I ask Born Free the same question, they got me an answer.
So based on our previous experience with born Free (many years in business, dedicated employees, great customer service and factory direct pricing without the cost of a dealership middleman) we think it may be a good idea to find another such company to work with if we ever had to replace our BF.
As to Leisure Travel we are not familiar with this coach but if it is a quality coach and meets our needs otherwise we would certainly keep an open mind on it and potentially other quality coaches that may be unknown to us at the time of need. However, our hope is that our current BF lasts for many years to come because we just love it.
Again this is just our opinion and we are always open to the ideas of others.
Nick & Dee Dee
2006 24’ RB
randallrae
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 7:30 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by randallrae »

I agree that the buyer needs to read the specs carefully , this is and example of the weakness of the European chassis . http://www.motorhome.com/top-stories/sp ... ig-luxury/ check the weights .
2012 25' rb
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Dallas Baillio
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Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Dallas Baillio »

Do I read this correctly—-370 lbs and the review focuses on bumping your head and the short shower hose? A fluff piece. If I recall correctly my BF has more than 2,000 lbs CCC.
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
jlef123
Posts: 169
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by jlef123 »

[Do I read this correctly—-370 lbs and the review focuses on bumping your head and the short shower hose? A fluff piece. If I recall correctly my BF has more than 2,000 lbs CCC.][/i]

I would be overjoyed if my 2015 Splendor(RSB) had 2000# of CCC. It doesn't. However even with that much CCC you must be careful how that weight is distributed. It is possible to still be overweight on an individual axle or tire. Very important to have each wheel weighed. I did and was very surprised. I had to redistribute my "stuff" and eliminate unnecessary items. My GVWR was not overweight but my rear axle was.
Joel & Sandy
2002 26' RB
2015 27' Splendor
2020 Coachmen Beyond
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Dallas Baillio
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:52 pm

Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Dallas Baillio »

From data provided by Born Free for my 26’ Rear Side Bed with cabover

To me it appears that net carrying capacity is the same as cargo carrying capacity.


Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. 14,050 lbs
Maximum permissible weight


Unloaded Vehicle Weight. 11,101 lbs
As built at factory with full fuel,
engine oil and coolants.


Net Carrying Capacity. 2,949 lbs
Maximum weight of all
occupants including the driver,
personal belongs, food, fresh
water, LP gas, tools, tongue
weight of towed vehicle, dealer
installed accessories, etc. that
can be carried by this motorhome

Gross Combined Weight Rating. 20,000 lbs
The value specified by the
motorhome manufacturer
as the maximum allowable
loaded weight of this motorhome
With its towed trailer or towed
vehicle.
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
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Roger H
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Re: So what RVs to look at, now that Born Free is gone?

Post by Roger H »

jlef123 wrote:
I would be overjoyed if my 2015 Splendor(RSB) had 2000# of CCC. It doesn't. However even with that much CCC you must be careful how that weight is distributed. It is possible to still be overweight on an individual axle or tire. Very important to have each wheel weighed. I did and was very surprised. I had to redistribute my "stuff" and eliminate unnecessary items. My GVWR was not overweight but my rear axle was.
I've gotta tell you, that's why a moho on a Super-C chassis is really ideal. All of the NHTSC safety mandates of a standard truck, but the cargo capacity is significantly higher. IIRC (without going to the book to confirm) my Kodiak's GVWR is 23,000 lbs, and my coach, as equipped weighs about 16,000 lbs. That's a LOT of "stuff" it can haul. It also has a 10,000 lb tow capacity, and it's really tough to overload the 19.5" tires.
'06 Born Free 32 RQ Kodiak Chassis
(Former: '01 Born Free 23 RK)
Dinghy: '16 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon with a Blue Ox Aladdin tow bar.
Traveling with Sir Winston and Lady Rae (Cavalier King Charles Spaniels)
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