The Cold Cabover

[Ann P]

I'm in SW Arizona and it has been pretty cold (30s) at night, tho not what most of the country has had. I have the ent. center set-up in my RSB and various items stored in the cabover, and boy is it freezing in there, even when it's between 40-50 overnight. I avoid opening the upper cabinets for anything after dark. I can't imagine anyone having a bed up there. Does BF put more insulation in the cabover if you have a bed installed? Does everyone else feel the same cold drafts that mine has? I've even covered up the roof fan vent; that helped some.

I am a bit surprised at the coldness along the windows,door and flooring. I bought this rig because it's well-built - should I be disappointed that it's cold enough inside that I don't want to boondock when it's nippy outside? I've got my little heater rolling, plus the propane, and several layers of clothing...I may not boondock until April!

Also, in the back of the rig, the bed area stays warmer than the front, although the furnace vents are more for the front area. I know one couple who took the furnace out of their bus and installed a catalytic heater; too much heat blows outside from a furnace.

I read that Charlotte is warm inside her BF, but I'm not, sad to say. Would appreciate other comments, esp. from the RSB people. Has anyone added insulation to the doors or cabover?

[jobrien]

Ann;

Can't help directly, since we have not been out in ours in real cold weather.

The following is part of a post from the Tiffin owners forum. I was not aware that Fantastic offered "dual pane" vent lids. I will look into this for mine also. It may make a small difference.

John

"There is a fix for the darkness though. I did this on my 2004 Bus and I did it again on my 2007. First of all, the Tiffin supplied lids are smoke and standard (aka "single pane"). I called Fan-Tastic and ordered clear lids but I also ordered "insulated" lids (aka "dual pane"). The insulated lids make a huge difference in keeping heat out in summer and keeping the cold out in cool weather. Plus they eliminate condensation because they don't sweat - no matter how cold it gets. I ordered two clear ones for under the hoods and one smoked one for over the toilet. They didn't cost very much in 2004 but when I ordered them for the 2007 the customer service rep just said he'd ship them out. When I inquired about the cost he said "We don't charge for parts. They're free". I explained this wasn't a warranty, only an upgrade. He said "that's fine and sent them out". You sure can't beat that. "

[whemme]

Ann,

I have the 2002 BF 26' RSB model myself with entertainment center but previously had a 1999 BF 24' RB model with cab over bed. With the entertainment center, the doors to it are normally closed so therefore no heat is able to enter and keep that area warm on cold days. However, with the cab over bed, access to that area then is not closed off so heat can keep that area warmer.

The furnace vents located under the refrigerator in the RSB model can be rotated to direct heat toward the front or towards the rear of the unit at your choice.

Concerning the windows in your coach, dual pane windows were an option installed on most BF units but may not have been in your unit depending on what options you selected assuming you purchased your coach new.

I will agree that on cold days the Born Free coach seems to lose a lot of heat thru the floor - the floor is not insulated very well in my opinion.

[bcope01]

Ann:

If your unit had the cab-over bed feature, that would probably be the warmest place in the coach. Remember, heat rises, second stories always warmer than the first story.

Likewise for the floor. Even though the thermostat may be showing 68 degrees, it could be many degrees cooler at or near the floor. Remember the thermostat reads and contols the temperature at 4-5 feet above the floor. The coldest air is at floor level.

I have no explanation for the cold drafts emanating from windows and doors other than that, by their nature, they are a conduit for cold and heat. Even the best will leak some cold and heat.

Since others haven't suggested it yet, i will. Howz about letting Curlie Sue sleep with you, that would help assuming she is big and furry.

Another solution may be an electric blanket while sleeping.

Bill

[Road Dog]

Make sure your dash vents are closed. They are often the source of drafts!

[CHARLOTTE]

I have the RSB model with the Entertainment center & my heater (the cube) really did keep my RV very comfortable for me considering I was in heavy winds and cold temps. What I did notice is that there were drafts near the linoleum part of the floor & around the windows. One of the things I did was block the grate type door by the bed (that opens to the storage area under the bed). I wish there were some way to insulate the floor area because I agree that it obviously is not insulated well if at all. The carpeted area obviously is not affected as much because of the carpeting....I've seen the insulated inserts at CW that you can install at the ceiling fan & may purchase one next time I'm there (as I guess every little bit helps), but I too am not happy that the coach is not better insulated. I'm in California where normally we don't have extremely cold weather (tho, this year seems to be an exception for us at least, with temps dropping into the 20's at night)...So, I can't imagine how folks that live in colder climates manage in their BF's if they are camping during cold & windy weather. One thing I did notice that I hadn't before this was that the vent at the floor area on the side by the rear sink & closet area where the converter is installed, did not have any air (or heat) coming out of it when I ran the furnace. Is this normal? Or do I have something disconnected somewhere. The other vents all work fine. Another thing I don't understand is why there isn't a vent at the front where the cab & living area meet. That would certainly help keep that area warmer. As far as how cold it gets in the upper cabinets...yep! that's true. However, I store only light weight items in the cabover part...blankets, sheets, pillows, sleeping bags, etc. and keep the doors closed. I guess if you wanted to heat the whole insides you could just open all your cabinet doors & let the furnace (and/or additional heaters) keep those areas warm. Myself, well I'm more concerned with the floor & window areas. Any ideas on how to control that would really be appreciated...Also, I have the darkened windows...how do you tell if you have upgraded windows...and if you don't, is that something you can change after the fact? I would think it's possible as if you broke a window you'd have to replace it....right??? Or are the upgraded ones different sizes....questions, questions...I'm sure someone has the answers & will help those of us (like me) that don't have a clue....Comments appreciated...

[Linda Giuliani]

We have a 26' RSB and I sleep in the cabover. Our unit has the cabover window. In extreme temperatures I use the fabric cover supplied by Born Free to keep cold air from coming in through this upper window. If we are plugged in to shore power and are using the electric heat strip, my nest stays warm because the vent blows directly to that area. If we are running on propane I just stay warm with the sleeping sack that came from BF. It is quite warm on the "winter" side.

For daytime, we close off the curtains to the cabover, close the curtains to the cab and drop and tuck a blanket down to make sure no cold air can get under the curtain or between the front seats. Being all glass, the cab is very ineffecient retaining heat. With the front areas closed off the furnace does a better job keeping the rest of the coach warm.

The propane furnace provides a great warmth on the floors. The electric heat strip obviously does not. So if we run the heat strip, we also run a small electric heater at floor level. This seems to keep everything pretty comfy. It also helps to wear ankle booties.

I recently was contacted by a couple in Louisiana who are looking for a recent model 24' RB. They told me they were taking their Class A Foretravel to Colorado to do some skiing this month. I envy them their wonderfully insulated coach! She said they can comfortably go in any weather. BUT they wanted to add the BF to their fleet for flexibility in camping. So maybe what we all need to do is add a Foretravel to our fleet! Knowing that won't be happening for us, until the factory can be convinced to further insulate the BF, guess we will just have to wear a few more sweater layers.

[Judy Harris]

Hi, Ann. We live in northern MIchigan and use our RSB for skiing in the winter. A few things have helped us - we have the black curtains for the cab area that fit over the windshield and side cab windows and these seem to do a better job of keeping the cab area warm. I forget the name of them but several people have bought them and they are great. Also, I have a wool rug that covers the kitchen area from the edge of the carpeting to the bed that keeps that floor area somewhat warmer in the winter. I agree that the floor gets cold but I think we are used to it since we wear wool socks and shoes and layers of clothes at home all winter too. Ugg slippers are great! We seriously considered buying a Bigfoot with basement storage and heat for this exact reason but were persuaded that the Born Free was a better unit overall. Stay warm, you guys in the south are really suffering this year while we are still praying for enough snow up here to play in.

Judy Harris

[Linda Giuliani]

Judy, what special procedures do you go through for keeping the pipes from freezing? Everyone seems to have their own rituals. We've not spent a lot of time in 20 degree or colder weather and so have just kept the coach warm inside and cabinet doors opened to keep the warm air circulating. This has worked for us but perhaps we have just been lucky. I know some folks use antifreeze.

I cover my cab windows with some inside covers I made myself that are similar to the Easy Curtains you have. Mine, like yours, do help to retain the heat. I made a set of the same covers for all the coach windows. (They also work as blackout curtains to keep the dogs from barking at passing people/animals which is really the reason I made them. ) You might feel a little "closed in", but it sure helps to cut down on the drafts and heat loss through the glass.

You are right - Uggs (and their siblings) are fabulous.

We are in the middle of a rain/sleet/snow weather pattern here in Fort Worth. The "big" storm they predicted last week just grazed us, but the one they didn't predict this morning caught us all by surprise and left us with a beautiful blanket of snow that is very rare here. Since we don't have the equipment to clear the roads I am staying home until things dry off. Unfortunately "they" say we will have a continuous pattern of sleet from Thursday night into Saturday. Just enough time to re-stock the fridge. I will send all this up your way just as soon as I can! Until recently we had been enjoying all that warm balmy weather that global warming has provided.. . ..

[Judy Harris]

Linda, you all are really getting the brunt of this! Even us northern folks can't do anything with ice. We haven't had a problem with freezing pipes but we run the furnace, keep the cabinet doors open in the kitchen area, and put antifreeze in the sink traps and shower at night. We have tank heaters that we turn on if it will be below freezing. So far, so good. Our only problem has been that the outside valves for the tanks tend to freeze if it is below about 20 and you can't open them to dump. The first time this happened we waited until it got warmer and were fortunate to be in Iowa where the rest stops have dump stations so we could dump. We have tried putting antifreeze in the tanks right after we dump (a BF suggestion) but this hasn't helped. We now carry a heat gun that we use very carefully on the outside valves when this happens. Drive safely down there and carry kitty litter. It is great on ice. Also, carry drinking water in the car and the universal emergency food, chocolate!! We never leave home without it.

Judy Harris, praying for snow in Michigan

[Ann P]

This has all been quite interesting and helpful too. Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions. I'm in Quartzsite now, the Rv'ers Mecca, and will look for the curtains that fit over the outside windshield. I already have area rugs over the carpeting and the wood floors, I wear Acorn wool booties and layers of clothing, the vents are closed in the cab, the dog sleeps on the bed too, and I think I have thermapane windows (I bought the unit used but it does have numerous options). I decided to just crank up the furnace and little heater and give up conserving energy. It goes against my environmental convictions but I feel better!

I do put the infamous RV antifreeze in my shower drain after I dump the tanks. It has been around freezing every night, so seems like a good idea. If we get into the 20s,I'll put it in the sink drains too...I've been ok so far. I'm just tired of being cold every night in the coach. I just checked the thermometer that I put in the cabover/entertainment center,and it's 55 degrees. Thought it would be worse.

Today I was wandering around the RV lot of Guaranty (big dealer), looking at other Class C's and some B+ rigs. Found a 2004 Born Free RSB, low mileage, if anyone is looking. The units that had real dinettes and roomy slides looked really tempting, but I was happy to come home to my BF.

[CHARLOTTE]

Judy....You say you use 'tank heaters'.....I'm not familiar with such a product. Can you explain in more detail please?

[Hike]

I am living in my BF near Portland, Oregon and it has been very cold here for over a week. I have the outside cover on my windshield and side windows on the cab and the Easy Curtain on the inside and that helps keep the front warmer. I didn't think about the vents being open up there. Good idea, I will have to check that when I get home tonight. I also have an electric heater on the floor between the front seats that has been on most of the time lately. I have the cabover bed which I use for storage of large, lightweight items. I leave the curtain open and that area stays warm. I have in the past opened the bed up and closed the curtains making sure they lay on top of the bed so cold air does not fall down between the curtain and bed. That leaves less area to heat but makes the place seem lots smaller. I also don't like that cold area up there if I need to get something from there so I usually leave it open and heated.

I have been very cozy in my BF so far. Some of the things I do are: I have a large towel rolled up and stuffed under the big side window where my adjustable bed is to stop the draft from the window. The Travasak keeps me very warm at night. Sometimes too warm. I leave the cabinet doors to areas with water pipes open on very cold nights and I let the water drip a little so my insulated outside hose doesn't freeze.

The only problem I have is with the dump valves as someone else mentioned. While I was under the coach recently checking that area, I noticed the drain pipe from the shower is right out in the open too. I may look into some permanent insulation for that area. Seems like it should be easy to build something around those pipes. My black tank currently won't dump because of freezing somewhere. Hope it thaws out soon!