Deciding between a Lazy Daze and Born Free

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dr john zeravich

Deciding between a Lazy Daze and Born Free

Post by dr john zeravich »

Hello Born Free Owners,
Nancy and I are currently enjoying a 2000 24' C-Class Safari Motorhome. We have owned it since it was brand new.
We are entertaining the possibility of replacing our unit in 2008.
After much research we have decided on a 30' Twin Bed Lazy Daze ($107,000 fully loaded with tax) or the new 32' Twin Bed Born Free ($150,000 fully loaded with tax).
Big difference!
I am asking for your help.
My wife is very picky about interiors which is why she is not too excited about the Lazy Daze.
The Born Free interiors are much superior.
How has your experiences with the manufacturer been?
What idiosyncracies do Born Frees have, i.e. water pumps that need to be replaced annually, etc.?
I most appreciate your taking the time to help.
SteveR

Post by SteveR »

We are fairly new Born Free owners of a 32' rear queen and looked at several different class Cs in the 30-35 foot range. We evaluated the Lazy Daze, Bigfoot, Jayco Seneca, and several others in our search.

We found the Lazy Daze to be a well built unit for that price range with a good layout but limited storage and very limited CCC. Unless they are putting the 30' on a Kodiak chassis the weight of the coach alone is too heavy for the Ford chassis. Once you start adding additional goodies and your own food, clothing and other gear you are over the allowed gross weight for the chassis.

The Born Free has a better chassis with well over 2000# CCC (more if you don't add all the possible bells and whistles). It also has more storage space, better craftsmanship on the interior and looks more up to date than the Lazy Daze coach. Especially with the new full body paint option.

We are very happy with our coach. We bought it used from the factory and did experience some issues that were all quickly addressed by Born Free Customer Service. We have been very happy with their response and their help in resolving these issues which seem to be unique to our unit. None of the issues were due to Born Free manufacturing; rather they were to third party items in the coach on on the Chevrolet chassis.

If given a choice to do it all over again, we would buy another Born Free but have one built to our specifications rather than retrofitting a used unit.

You get what you pay for.

Go look at some of the less expensive class Cs out there in the same size range. They are less money for a reason. They are constructed with less exensive materials from mass production sources. Their quality is on the low end because they need to make and sell the units in high volume so they have to make them fast and cheap. They rattle, squeek, and shudder going down the road. Things will break easier. Cabinets will chip and split, floors will tear easily and many other things just won't hold up.

Look at just about any 5,10, 15 or older Born Free and they are usually in very good shape. They are designed and built to last while providing a very comfortable interior with lots of fine touches that can only be there when a coach is hand built by craftsmen. It is also one of the safest coaches built. No one has ever died in a Born Free due to roll over accidents.
Ann P

Deciding between lazy daze and born free

Post by Ann P »

Hi...here's my experience. I also spent a couple years deciding on my Class C, and used the RV Consumer Group ratings, which had the BF and LD as the top-rated. I went to "The Rally" in Redmond, OR in 2005 so I could inspect many motorhomes, and talk to salespeople and other RVers; I had previously been to Life on Wheels, which is a great experience that I recommend to anyone who cares about RVing. I test drove a BF and a Bigfoot at the Rally. I called the LD and BF factories and requested videos; the customer service from BF was much better than LD, and as you can see in this forum, the Iowa guys are always helpful. Because LD doesn't go to RV shows, as far as I know, I had to wait til I saw one in a campground and then ask/beg to look inside.

I have to say that I have seen some interior layouts in LDs that I like better than my BF. One LD had an office set-up and others had spacious dinettes. I would love a bigger table to work on, and the LDs seemed to have more practical kitchen set-ups. However, as Steve points out, the BFs have more CCCs and that was a big factor for me as a full-timer wannabe. I had been interested in the Winnebago View until I saw how flimsy it is and how little weight you can pack. The BF is solid, and when I take it in for Ford service, there are always compliments from the service people. The RV works fine; Ford is another story.

I found my coach "pre-owned" at a RV dealership. I agree that it's worth the money to buy a new one and have it built your way, if you can afford it. You can make changes with the beds, closet, shower, shades,etc. Be sure to meet other BF owners, go to a Rally, a BF get-together, or a RV show, and see what adaptations were made and hear personal BF stories. LD is a good product too . I guess it depends on what you are looking for, how you will use it (wanting to tow also?), and how much you are willing to spend for quality. Good luck!
Brent
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:53 pm

Post by Brent »

Boy Sam, you do have some issues fortunately they don't seem to be the norm I hope you have better luck in the future.

I looked at both coaches and went to CA to test drive and possibly buy a coach. This was when the LD was on the 350 chassis (23'). It had a low payload, the drive was too soft for me, and I didn't like the way the people at the factory treated potential customers. BF factory people were very good to deal with in conversations.

Most interior appliances are similar in both coaches (LD or BF), so I don't necessarily see a big deal. Both coaches seem to be constructed for safety.

This is subjective but the BF is constructed very well, on the23' it drives like a charm and there is plenty of payload, but it is also very solid - steel and wood. I do think the LD had a superior floor plan in the 23' model.

BF has a much higher level of finish and cabinetry work. In addition I do personally like the exterior appearance and love the way the 23' drives.

I bought a 23' BF on a 450 chassis - it was a good decision for me. I've loved the coach and believe the people at BF are truly customer driven.

The problem I'm facing now is I'm thinking of replacing mine and BF really has stepped out of the market for a 23' coach with an overhead. The BFT isn't going to work for me and I don't want a longer coach. I'll have to evaluate options again.
Bornfree (1999 Rear Kitchen)
Traveling with Chester (The Boxer) - at least in spirit
LeAnn

Experience with company

Post by LeAnn »

Hi,
Although we are new to BF, we have owned a variety of "other" motorhomes, pop ups, hard sided trailers over the years we have returned to the firm belief that BF and Dodgen industry is more than a RV company with a fancy Motorcoach. They stand behind a quality product. I have known the company for 40 years - since the early days of the first camper-motorhomes made by Born Free. The quality is without question, the company stands behind the product, and most important to us - Mr. Dodgen has always driven what he sells. I believe these Motorhomes are the safest and most reliable on the road - which is why we have returned to the company and are in the process of becoming owners now that my children are grown. We have spent three years driving and researching everything on the market - some more expensive and some far less. We borrowed a BF from some friends (very nice friends!!) and took a trip - and for the first time it was a vacation for me, rather than just a trip. I am smaller person (ok - short) and driving the Motorhome was as easy as driving my daily vehicle. I had no difficulty in city traffic, parking or backing up the coach. Hook ups were easy for me to understand and assemble/dissasemble. The quality of wood inside the coach was durable, didn't scratch or peel like other companies, the fridge-freezer stayed cold, the heater worked, water was hot when I needed it, storage everywhere!, the sofa was easily coverted to a bed and actually comfortable for a sofabed. The cab and motorcoach living area stayed cool with the AC. We did not use all appliances at once, but all things worked well when I needed them. I like the ability to choose/customize the interior to meet the desires and needs of an individual rather than the assembly line approach. Some modifications that we desire have been met with a positive attitude from the company and a willingness to make it "our little home on the road"........ I look forward to its completion and becoming part of the BF family....
LeAnn :D
KTnLen

Post by KTnLen »

Dr Zeravich: you might have noticed there is a Leap'n Lions rally at Pase Robles CA in 10 days, and I know Steve and Donna Roberts plan to attend with their 32-ft Rear Queen President. This is the info and you can see more in the Rallies section of our group board:

Name: Paso Robles California Rally
Dates: April 26-29, 2007
Location: Paso Robles, CA
Campground: Wine Country RV Resort
Campground Website: www.winecountryrvresort.com
Hosts: Robert Newby, Bill Frank, & Jim Hofmann
Mail Address: 802 O'Connor Way, San Luis Obispo, CA 93405
Telephone: 805-441-1933 (cell)
E-mail Address: bnewby1@aol.com

We have the Rear Twin 32-ft President, and I can provide photos or answer questions on that configuration. At the moment, we have 3,939 miles on the odometer. We previously owned the 32-ft RQ prototype and traded it in for this production model. The prototype is for sale again by the factory.

The interior is solid, and well built. We liked the fabric and trim choices, and even added a few things, such as snap-on blackout curtains, rearranging the living room floorplan, etc. The factory has been fantastic. We also ordered a heavier hitch so we could have a car hauler with a BMW behind.

Minor issues we've experienced have been electrical related, and the customer support to my local handyman has been great in helping to resolve these.

Glad to help you through the decision process. Len C sends.
SteveR

Post by SteveR »

KTnLen wrote:Dr Zeravich: you might have noticed there is a Leap'n Lions rally at Pase Robles CA in 10 days, and I know Steve and Donna Roberts plan to attend with their 32-ft Rear Queen President. This is the info and you can see more in the Rallies section of our group board:

...Glad to help you through the decision process. Len C sends.
Yes, we will be attending the Rally in Paso Robles. We will be leaving SLC next Monday and will spend a couple of days in Las Vegas at the Oasis RV Park before arriving in Paso Robles on Wednesday evening (one day early for the rally). We leave Sunday morning.

We would be happy to show you the coach if you are in the area. PM me and I will give you my cell phone number so you can contact me while we are there if you want to see it.

Steve
User avatar
bcope01
Posts: 1290
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:55 pm

Post by bcope01 »

Sam Ryan wrote:I wish I would have known this before I bought a Born Free.
Gee Sam, if not a Born Free, what Class C coach do you recommend? :?

Bill
Barb & Bill
2004 Born Free 22' Built for Two (Sold)
no longer towing a 2008 Smart ForTwo

Escondido, CA
robert newby

Post by robert newby »

Hi Dr John -- I'd also like to extend an invation to stop by the Born Free rally at Paso Robles -- the factory will have at least 2 new BF's there for you to inspect -- also it would be a good time to discuss the qualties of the BF and see for yourself why the BF is considered the top of the line in class C motorhomes -- it would be a very easy day trip for you to get to Paso Robles -- it may also be possible for you to stay overnite at the park as it is open to the public --- Bob Newby----Please try to make it to Paso Robles
User avatar
Dallas Baillio
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:52 pm

Lazy Daze vs. Born Free

Post by Dallas Baillio »

If you have not done so, post your inquiry on the Lazy Daze user group web page. Is it possible that you are comparing the 30 ft Lazy Daze on the Ford e-450 chassis with the Born Free 32 ft Chevrolet? I seem to recall that there is not much difference between the cargo carrying capacity of the 26 ft Born Free and the 26 ft Lazy Daze. But the 30 ft Lazy Daze does have limited cargo carrying capacity. There is a rumor going round that Lazy Daze will begin to use the Chevrolet chassis. One final comment, I e-mailed Lazy Daze just last week to inquire which floor plans they might have in stock at this time that I might see. In their reply they said that they are putting new interiors in their 2008 models. It is a shortcoming of Lazy Daze that their interiors look like something out of the 60's!
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
User avatar
Mel Wilbur
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:39 pm

Lazy Daze

Post by Mel Wilbur »

Dr. John, As you are thinking of purchasing a new coach in 2008 it gives you ample time to do your homework. I would suggest you monitor this website to enable you to form your own opinion as to the quality not only of the Born Free coach but equally important the quality of the manufacturer and how they treat their owners. I will go out on a limb by saying 98% of Born Free owners, some of which are now on their second or third, would purchase another Born Free should they decide to move up to a new coach. Best of luck in your research.
Mel & Connie
CHARLOTTE

Post by CHARLOTTE »

Just putting in my 2 cents as an Owner of a 26' RSB vintage '99. Maybe it makes a difference if a person travels solo or as a couple or a family in choosing an RV. For me being a senior female & usually driving solo, I had to have certain qualities in an RV. Safety was my first priority. Born Free offers customized construction with quality materials and personal attention & committment of the team building the RV. I never considered buying a class A, so I can't speak with experience regarding them or the companies that build them. As many of you know I bought my BF 'gently' used & have gone to Iowa to have some customized features added. I saw there first hand how they build our coaches & how safety & proper high quality materials are used plus the pride of the employees connected with the product from beginning to end.... My coach has 87K miles on it & I religiously have it maintained by a reputable RV company here in San Jose. In all the miles I've driven and all the roads I've been on (some being a real nightmare), all the places I've taken it where I boondocked or had hook-ups, I have never, I repeat NEVER, had a problem other than when one of my hydraulic jacks got caught & could not rise up due to loose gravel (which was my fault & not a faulty 'jack').
I feel safe in my coach knowing it has safety features that others don't have. I like everything feeling solid as I drive down the road & I like the fact that it still looks like new inside & out. I like my cabinet doors that fit well, open correctly & stay closed when I'm driving. I don't have nor have I ever had plumbing leaks or problems with my shower or toilet or water tank or anything. My engine still purrs, my generator works perfectly when needed....air conditioning and heat strip still do their job....I couldn't be happier....I don't know who the team was that built mine, but they sure did a good job and I sincerely appreciate their efforts cause I enjoy my coach every time I turn the key on....Guess I must fall into that 98% mentioned above... but then I feel I've got a coach that gives me 110% & I wouldn't drive anything else.... 8)
hrgermany

Born Free Quality

Post by hrgermany »

My BF RV is even older.I am a proud owner of a 1995 BF 26RSB.My other
RV was a 1989 BF 24RB.The only reason I sold it I wanted a rear bed.
On both the quality of workmans ship is unsurepassed.They have the greates service department,specialy Kim Olsen.People dont be believe
when I tell them how old my RV is.Luckily I am able todo a lot upgrades by myself.Would I buy an other BF RV if the need arises?Any time.
Hans Rueckert
1995 BF 26RSB
User avatar
Dallas Baillio
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:52 pm

Born Free or Lazy Daze

Post by Dallas Baillio »

I find it refreshing that someone is posting some negative things about the BF. The only other time in the recent past that I can recall any less than positive posts were 1.) Things we would like to see in a new BF and 2.) when the dicusssion arose about replacing the bat wing antenna with a Winegard. I think someone called the BF installed bat wing "crappy" and there seemed to be almost universal agreement. I also recall someone mentioning that the BF factory monitors this forum. If they are to improve their product they need to hear what users DON'T like about their motor homes. The BF is a well built unit, perhaps better built than any other, but it can use some improvements. I, for one, don't want to be part of a mutual admiration society and afraid to criticize or suggest improvements to the BF products. As far as customer service, in my limited experience I have been well satisfied with BF, but I've only talked to Kim and he has always been helpful. I have heard that the guys at Lazy Daze are a bit grumpy! Maybe like a lot of us!
Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
Born Free Leap'n Lions RV Club Member
SteveR

Post by SteveR »

In all fairness and in the interest of fair balance, as some of you know from my posts here and elsewhere, I have had some issues with my coach; some very significant ones and some just inconvient. A short history is in order...

We bought our coach direct from the factory as a "previously owned unit"; in point of fact, it was THE demonstrator model for the 2006 President line and was featured in several RV magazines including the Feb 2007 issue of FMCA. So, the rig had been to several shows and had been used by the authors of the various articles. The level of service the coach received during this time was never documented so how knows what was done to it after it left the factory?

Our "issues":
#1
The King Dome satellite dish would not work and registered an error code after we arrived home and tried to set it up for reception. I downloaded the Service Manual from King Controls and ran though the trouble shooting tree and found the problem....well two actually...one was the controller was bad and the other was someone had reversed the main and the secondary output coax cables. The main actually receives a 24 volt input to the dish itself for power to move the dish LNB to locate a satellite. I contacted Kim with this information and he advise me to contact King Controls directly and to let him know if I needed any assitance from him. I did so and King Controls covered the replacement controller as a swap...I paid for the new one and they would reimburse me once they received the old one. I then fixed the cable issue and it locked on all satellites without a hitch. Problem fixed.

#2
The Link Mfg. air bag suspension system on the rear springs has a compressor that is used to keep the bags full of air. We noticed that if the rig sat for more than a day or two, it took over 15 minutes to fill the bags and have the red light go out. I again called Kim and he said to contact Link directly and find a repair center in my area. I did so and scheduled a visit for an evaluation. After several hours they reported they had finally found a small leak in one of the fittings and replaced it.

After a few days of sitting the air bags did the same thing. I again notified Kim and Link of the continued problem and spoke to a Customer Service rep. at Link on several occasions trying to determine the next course of action. We decided that perhaps the controller valves were leaking...a very difficult place to check and detect a slow leak. They agreed to send new valves to the repair shop. The shop installed the new valves and now the unit behaves "normally." Problem resolved.

#3
With much anticipation, we planned our first major trip since we bought the motorcoach in October 2006. We were finally going to escape the cold and snow and head to southern Utah for several days of sun and fun. We made it 300 miles when the transmission refused to downshift going up a hill and the transmission maintenance light went on. We read the manual and it advised to stop driving and have the unit towed to the nearest repair center. In our case it was 300 miles away...back were we came from. The transmission repair facility got around to working on it two days later (too late for us to take our trip). They confirmed the transmission was showing a number of error codes and was not shifting properly. They dropped the pan and found a tiny piece of metal not much bigger than a human hair but only 1/4" long that had shorted out the solenoid in the transmission. They flushed it out and put in new fluid and shared with us that they had seen this a few times before on this transmission.

#4
The Dometic refrigerator had never really cooled the refrigerator. When we bought the unit, the unit had just been turned on and the freezer was cool (not cold) and we were assured that it would cool down in a few hours. We were new to RVing so we did not know how long was " a few hours" and to make a long story shorter...we soon realized the next day that it was not working...we were also 400 miles away and on a very tight schedule to get back to Utah so turning around to return to the factory was not an option. We later tired many things after the worst part of winter passed by to see if we could get to work...no dice. Again we contacted Kim and he advise us to take it to a local authorized repair center while we worked directly with Dometic to get our issue resolved. The tests showed the cooling unit was defective and Dometic agreed to fix it. Problem resolved.

#5
I felt the steering was not right the whole 1500 mile trip from the factory home...especially in 40+ mph cross winds, snow, sluch, and being passed by trucks. The front end just seemed to float and have a mind of its own which made for a very very white knucle factor on that trip. I finally found a place that was suggested by a RV friend in the area and I took it in for an alignment. The found a number of issues with the alignment:
--the front axle was shimmed in opposite directions causing a built in torque in the axle that expressed itself as wandering and unsure steering. The also found the castor and camber to be our of limits as was the rear axle alignment. I also had them put on a Roadmaster antisway bar on the front at their recommendation. The difference was amazing. I can now easily steer the rig with one hand and no longer fear lane changes, passing trucks, and crosswinds. Issue resolved.

From this extensive posting it should be apparent that none of the issues we have experienced were direclty due to the coach itself. Everything has been related to either the chassis (Chevrolet) or to the manufacturer of the items attached to the chassis (Link Mfg.) or with equipment that is used by many other coach manufacturers (King Control) and (Dometic). My only beef is that several of these were present in the coach when we took possession and should have been detected and repaired by the factory before we picked it up. However, we also believe we rushed their normal evaluation process by some of the additions we wanted to the coach before we were to pick it up including move up to a class IV hitch and adding a side window awning. These took some time to fit into the factory schedule and even required sending the coach off site to a trailer shop to install the hitch. This let them will very little time from the date of receipt of the coach to when we stated we had to pick it up to meet our shedule. Perhaps some of the equipment-related problems would have been detected and corrected before we took delivery...perhaps not. We will never know.

The point of this very long (sorry) post is to simply state that bad things can happen to good coaches. We believe the worst is behind us as we continue to add new gagets and toys to the coach to make it ours and to meet my needs for electronic and mechanical wiz bang stuff to play with. Hence the added rear and side camera system with full color monitor I fully installed; fully automatic levelers, SMI Silent Partner toad braking system (also installed by me), Pressure Pro tire pressure monitoring system (currently being installed by me), etc.

Complex equipment made by humans will have defects which may cause them to fail prior to their designed useable service life. Some people just don't follow procedures correctly and create problems later on (alignment issue).

Through all these issues Kim and Born Free have assisted when asked and have been made aware of each and every issue and how it was resolved. I have confidence and respect for the Customer Service function at Born Free and know that if and when we have other problems, they will assist us in getting them resolved.




We finally took our first real camping trip and decided to test it out by going over the mountains to a campground we knew about to do a shake down of all the systems to make sure they all worked. We are happy to report that all systems are now GO and our California trip should go smoothly.
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