Removing water stains on outside wood trim below shower lip

[Mary]

In looking at some older models of the RSB BF, I notice some have noticeable water stains on the wood trim outside the shower step over lip.

I assume this is the result of water splashing out onto the floor during a shower and wicking up into the wood?

Can this water stained oak wood be refinished to again match the oak wood of the interior cabinets? If not, are there other suggestions for improving the appearance of this area?

MEL

[tomdclark]

The "wood" is very likely plywood with a relatively thin surface veneer. I suspect the entire veneer layer is stained so that by the time you sanded enough to remove the stain you've also removed all of the decent looking wood.

I had a similar stain beneath my refrigerator near the floor. I made myself some red oak molding, covered it with poly and tacked it in place. It looks pretty good. You might try something similar

{The biggest problem I had was cutting out some circular arcs to fit around the furnace vents!}

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I assume this is the result of water splashing out onto the floor during a shower and wicking up into the wood?

Can this water stained oak wood be refinished to again match the oak wood of the interior cabinets? If not, are there other suggestions for improving the appearance of this area?

MEL

This is one of those things that looks worse than it really is. I would advise you to trust me and don't over think it. I've touched up the natural oak in the baths and kitchens in my RVs using the following procedure with excellent results.

Unless the wood has turned black from fungus it probably looks worse than it really is. Yes, the water has wicked up into the wood and possibly swelled the grain which, in turn loosened the clear coat. From your photo it appears to be plywood with an oak veneer, with no tint/stain and a clear (probably satin) finish. It's hard to say what the original finish is. The BF factory often uses prefinished panels from the lumber mill - often with a lacquer. I would recommend Minwax polyurethane clear satin finish as a good match, and for its ease of application, and for its quality. (I can't speak to the newer water based finishes for this type of repair as I haven't had the guts to try them yet.) Start with a clean dry surface. It doesn't looked stained from the photo so much as just dried out. If you doubt this try a simple trick - wipe over the area with mineral spirits on a rag. This will give you a rough idea of how the area will look after a coat of clear poly is applied. The mineral spirits will evaporate in a short time and do no harm.

First, sand the area with a sanding block (block of wood of a comfortable size ~2X4X3/4 inches) wrapped in 220 sand paper. Sand with the grain. You want to remove the loose old finish and roughen the old finish around the damaged area to provide a rough surface for the new polyurethane to adhere to. Sanding should also flatten the grain that has raised and dried rough as a result of the water swelling. You don't necessarily need to remove 100% of the old finish. the new finish should fill in and blend with it. Sanding between coats and multiple coats should result in an even surface after 2-3 coats. If you are unable to easily get a satisfactory surface with 220 sand paper, start with 180, then go to 220. But veneers can be as thin as a 1/32nd of an inch and can easily be sanded through. I typically finish with a 320 grit sand paper but good results can be achieved with the 220.

Don't try to sand to a uniform color. The oils in the poly will restore the rich golden color of the wood and penetrate the remaining old finish and make it disappear. Sometimes black mold and staining can be bleached out but I have had limited success bleaching.

Second, after sanding apply the clear satin poly. Thin the poly with about 10-20% mineral spirits for the first coat.

(Update 10/13/2012: I just started spraying closet doors and trim in our home and found that Min-Wax has recently changed their formulation to meet VOC emission requirements. While investigating the changes I found that they put a much thinner product in their quart cans and thicker in their gallon cans (per the MW user forum). If you get the smaller cans of finish, thinning is not necessary.)

Use a good quality brush to apply. Apply a thin coat and wait about 6 hours or 'til the following day. Rough the surface of the previous coat lightly with 320 grit sand paper. You may apply the subsequent coats of poly without thinning. I prefer thinning with about 10% mineral spirits for finish coats and generally apply at least 3 coats total. Do not sand the final coat.

Third, after the final coat has had time to cure - several days - and before using any furniture polish on the new finish - apply a bead of clear silicone bath caulk to the boundary where the wood meets the tile floor. This should prevent future spills from soaking into the wood.

If you have solid wood trim around the vanity and kitchen counters, this procedure should make them also look like new and will likely wear better than the original finish.

Mike

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I made myself some red oak molding, covered it with poly and tacked it in place. It looks pretty good. You might try something similar.

Good idea Tom. In this wet location I would recommend white oak. (Red oak is very porous and readily sucks up moisture. White oak is quite solid. Either should match OK.) Before installing, seal it well with polyurethane or spar varnish on all 6 sides and then caulk with a clear bathroom caulk after installing.

The attached picture is an example of a leftover piece of oak trim I have. Any cabinet shop could make a similar piece for you. (I'd cut this to fit and send it to you but it is red oak.)

Mike

[mockturtle]

I made myself some red oak molding, covered it with poly and tacked it in place. It looks pretty good. You might try something similar.

Good idea Tom. In this wet location I would recommend white oak. (Red oak is very porous and readily sucks up moisture. White oak is quite solid. Either should match OK.) Before installing, seal it well with polyurethane or spar varnish on all 6 sides and then caulk with a clear bathroom caulk after installing.

The attached picture is an example of a leftover piece of oak trim I have. Any cabinet shop could make a similar piece for you. (I'd cut this to fit and send it to you but it is red oak.)

Mike

I was considering ordering cherry in my next BF instead of oak. Do you know if cherry is denser than oak? Which oak is used in the BF?

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I was considering ordering cherry in my next BF instead of oak. Do you know if cherry is denser than oak? Which oak is used in the BF?

Mockturtle, does BF still offer the cherry as an option? I looked online but didn't see it. Our 2005 was ordered with all oak - even the floor. Some of our BF's veneers look more like white oak, cabinet doors are red oak as is the trim. The floor is a typical 5/8" thick oak flooring product. It is white oak with an aluminum oxide finish (very hard).

Sometimes it is difficult to tell red oak from white oak unless you can see the bare end grain. Red oak is actually harder than white oak (even brittle). It has relatively large diameter, long straight open tubes running through it. These veins will crush relatively easily so it is not good for floors and it draws up water when exposed to moisture making is not so good in wet areas. White oak is much denser, is solid through and through and is much heavier.

Cherry is a medium density hard wood - not as dense as white oak and not as porous as red oak. It does have a photo-reactive property that may or may not appeal to you given your taste and the application. When exposed to sunlight cherry will darken over time, taking on a rich red tone which is very beautiful. It can also get quite dark over time. With a fair amount of exposure it will reach saturation in 2 years or less. Some people would find a BF done all in cherry to be too dark inside.

BF uses materials from various different sources and therefore both oak and cherry coaches could have a range of colors and grain patterns. I would advise people to choose the look they like the best and to not worry about choosing the best wear characteristics. The trend in recent years has been to blend woods even in the same piece of furniture. I've not seen an RV with various woods species but done right it could be gorgeous. In case you haven't guessed - I like wood. In our home we have hickory in the laundry, Oregon myrtle on the window sills, oak in the library and living rooms, bamboo and oak in the studio, cherry in the baths, maple in the kitchen and a juniper fireplace mantle with a lot of hemlock doors and trim.

Mike

[mockturtle]

Thanks, Mike. I'm not sure whether my 2000 BF has red or white oak but I have a lot of cherry furniture at home and love the warm richness of it. Yes, it is reactive to light and my bookcases are all lighter inside than on the outside but that's OK.

Yes, the brochure I recently received indicates that both cherry and hickory are offered as optional. The standard is still 'oak' but it doesn't say which species of oak.

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

Because of BF's various sources, I'm sure that, like ours, you would be getting a mixture of both red and white oak and there isn't any way to be selective. Flooring would almost certainly be white oak. OBTW, our 2005 has has a white melamine veneer on the shower exterior unlike the oak used in the older models like Mel's.

Hickory is harder and heavier than almost any other hardwood (think ax handle). It would likely add 100+ pounds to your rig and much more if the floor was also hickory.

Mike

[Mel Wilbur]

We have the cherry wood and are very pleased. As to it darkening, a few years ago I added stained glass in the three overhead kitchen cabinet doors. The factory made us new pre-finished glass ready doors and after receiving them I set them out in the direct sunlight for about a day and a half and they quickly "aged" to match perfectly with the rest of the woodwork. The flooring in the kitchen and bath areas are cherry and I will say we do keep a carpet runner in that area as the cheery does not stand up as well if you drop anything with any weight on it. If I were to make any change to the flooring I would use something like the type currently being used in the new coaches.

[mockturtle]

We had a wood floor in our Foretravel and it was a challenge to keep up. I would definitely opt for all vinyl floors, as the newer models offer. I can add rugs, which can be washed. Posh is nice but practical is paramount to me.