Converter/Charger replacement

Bill Dodgen · Post by **Bill Dodgen** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:48 pm

Sam,

Here is the link at Camping World to the unit that I chose to install.
http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/it ... uard/18540

It is not portable, but was very easy to install under the sink. I just cut the main line in and connected this unit to each end of the wires, in effect "splicing" the surge protector in the line. I did get a couple of pieces of rubber to lift it off the floor a bit. Used a little adhesive to secure the rubber feet to the coach floor and and then screwed the unit to these rubber feet.

Bill

shilohdad · Post by **shilohdad** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:23 pm

On a previous motor home, we used the portable unit referenced by the Potters. While it lasted, it worked pretty well. We never found any miswired plugs, and can't say if we ever had any surges, but it did protect us from low voltage conditions several times.

However, when using this unit, you must be careful to protect it from rain. The instructions very clearly state that the unit must remain upright or water can enter the unit. This is quite difficult to do, as the unit does not have anything resembling a stand. Ours eventually stopped working after about 2 seasons when the darn thing fell over in a rain storm and, you guessed it, stopped working.

The other somewhat disconcerting thing it did (and the hardwired unit reference by Bill Dodgen will probably do, also) was to prevent current from entering your motor home for between 2 and 3 minutes after plugging in or after a bad power condition ends. I forget the rationale given in the instructions for that behavior.

shilohdad · Post by **shilohdad** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:34 pm

Addendum to my last post.

The problem we had with keeping the unit upright only occurred when you could not let the unit hang directly from the utility post at the camp site. Sometimes the 30 amp outlet was installed upside down from that expected by the surge protector. In this case, we sometimes could literally not plug the unit in at the post, so plugged it in to a 30-amp extension cord, then plugged the shore line into the surge protector. However, it is really difficult to keep the unit upright in this configuration.

Mel Wilbur · Post by **Mel Wilbur** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:42 pm

A few years ago I installed a Ditek-120HW surge protector unit and a Shurlite line voltage & frequency monitor and the combo works fine for me. The Ditek surge protector is a small unit (approx. 3x3x1.5) and in our case is attached in the bottom shelf area of the cabinet directly above the charger/converter making wiring very easy. The Shurlite monitor is plugged into a standard 110v receptacle making it visible at a glance to keep an eye on the current voltage or frequency. Total cost for the two units is approximately $125.00

bcope01 · Post by **bcope01** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:31 pm

Can someone enlighten me as to why a surge protector costs $200-$250?

Seems kind of steep to me.

Frugal Bill

Mel Wilbur · Post by **Mel Wilbur** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:18 pm

Bill, the Ditek surge protector I mentioned can be purchased for just under $50.00

bcope01 · Post by **bcope01** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:42 am

Thanks Bill. My comment was really directed at the Camping World offerings. Guess they just mark 'em up 400-500% for RV applications.

Bill

bbwolf · Post by **bbwolf** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:07 pm

While I'm still trying to understand this all, here is what I think I'm learning:

The inexpensive surge protectors actually act like a "fuse". They utilize an MOV ((Metal Oxide Varistors) that "sacrifice" themselves during a surge of power, and do not have the ability to replace the individual MOV (inside the surge protector) once it has served its purpose. Also, the less expensive ones only protect up to 500 jules of power. You want the higher "jules" protection possible.

The higher priced surge protectors use a series of MOV's, and also provide additonal protection. They test the ground power to ensure it is not miswired as well as shuts off when there is a power level drop below what is safe for our equipment.

Then there are more expensive surge protectors that ".... are superior to MOV-based protectors in many ways. An inductor (coil) is the key surge protector (plus other goodies). There is no contamination of the ground circuit, minimal disturbance on the neutral circuit and only a very low let-through voltage. The coil can be quite large in a "house" electrical system of over 400 amps capacity (unless a protector is installed in each circuit--bulky and expensive). In an RV, where maximum capacity is 30 to 50 amps, series-mode protectors are practical though still a bit bulky." source: http://www.phrannie.org/surge.html

Note: I am still learning so if anyone can correct the above info, it is greatly appreciated.

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:45 pm

I use a Tripp-Lite Model: ISOBAR6ULTRA http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/mo ... odelID=104
I have my sine wave 400w inverter plugged into this unit and it feeds all my electronics including my TV the only thing it does not cover is our microwave. I've been using this brand for a number of years at home and have had good luck with it protecting my sensitive electronics.
Steve

Bill Dodgen · Post by **Bill Dodgen** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:02 pm

bcope01 wrote:Thanks Bill. My comment was really directed at the Camping World offerings. Guess they just mark 'em up 400-500% for RV applications.

Bill

Yes, Camping World saw me coming on this one. ... convenient... impulse sets in to "check one off the list of things to do"... Well, you know the drill.

Bill

bbwolf · Post by **bbwolf** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:00 pm

Bill, I respectfully disagree with your comment about you being taken. So far I think you have the right product. The less expensive units all have noticable deficiencies. I'm almost ready to buy the same Camping World product after I get a couple other purchases complete.

bbwolf · Post by **bbwolf** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:09 am

A couple of comments:

Mel, you wrote that you have the Ditek-120HW surge protector. You may want to look at it, sir. The specs say you are only protected up to a Maximum Surge Energy Dissipation of: 190 Joules. This would leave you unprotected for the main electrical issue of "voltage drops" (when a bunch of motorhomes all turn on their A/C at the same time), or for the larger power spikes. "Its often said that lower joule ratings is undersized protection since harmful spikes are significantly larger than this. Better protectors exceed 1000 joules and 40,000 amperes." source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector

Steve, you wrote that you are using the Tripp-Lite Model: ISOBAR6ULTRA. Your device shows very good surge protection capacity (2350 joules), but does not cover you from the low voltage "voltage drops" that appear to be a real concern.

Another concern appears to be how fast (or unfortunately slowly) does the actual surge protector respond to a power spike. The MOV's (sort of like the fuses built into a surge protector) are known to have a very slow response time. This means that your actually getting the spike through to your equipment, BEFORE your surge protector does its job. (called response time). Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector (see Primary components, Metal oxide varistor)

bbwolf · Post by **bbwolf** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:23 am

So far, the best I can tell, we are looking for a surge protector that:

> Shuts down faulty power [Response time 1 nanosecond]

> Removes power if the voltage level drops below 102V or rises above 132V.

> Once the voltage resumes within these parameters, power is restored with a time delay to allow for AC head pressure bleed off.

> Monitors for faulty wiring from the power pedestal and protects from reverse polarity and the dangers of open neutral condition.

> Multi- mode surge protection eliminates the potential for power surges during electrical storms.

> Lifetime warranty on surge protection circuit.

> Surge Suppression (Joules) 1,750 [or above]

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:36 am

Alan, as I wrote in my post; I have a 400W sine wave inverter behind the Isotel surge suppressor, the unit will switch to batteries if the voltage drops below 85vac and rises above 140vac. I'm from the telecom world and we used to run all our equipment directly from banks of batteries (48vdc) and charge the batteries with large rectifiers. I guess it all depends on how much money you want to spend to protect your investment. We choose to just protect the electronics. We also use a digital power line monitor to check voltages when we hookup to power at campsites. We use the Kill A Watt meter: http://www.p3international.com/products ... 00-CE.html
You may also want to check the voltage on the 50A connector in the RV park as oftentimes they use heavier wiring and the wiring may be newer, we have an adapter that we use to change to 30A.
I seem to remember that Bill Hemme said something about this in previous posts.
Steve

Steve · Post by **Steve** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:21 pm

OK, after I wrote the last post I need to amend it. The electronics I was referring to are our TV, Sat dish and computers. If I could find a good surge suppressor that did what Alan wants to do and mount it inside the coach (so someone could not steal it)I would probably purchase one. The cost would have to be reasonable though! You would not be able to run all your appliances on a large inverter (heavy current draws) nor would you want to. So Alan when you find one let us know.

Steve