BATTERY REPLACEMENT

[BornFree_n_Now]

Jon

We installed a Progressive Dynamics PD9160A converter/charger at the same time we upgraded the batteries ~~ both actions were taken as result of our research, which led us to conclude that this combination would give us the best performance possible ~~ so far, we have not been disappointed.

[Bill Ruh]

Hi Jon,

6-volt batteries go in series (not parallel), so 6+6=12volts. So battery1 positive to battery2 negative, then the coach connects to battery1 negative and battery2 positive.

Shouldn't be a problem for the magnetek/parallax converter, as it still sees 12volts.

[jdarryl]

I've been reading the suggestions about swapping the charger/converter.
I having born free build me a 26 rear bath wondering if I might have the company put one of the ones you have suggested in before they finish construction??

[whemme]

JD,

I doubt if the Born Free factory will do that for you and here is why. The factory uses a Parallax brand system in their coaches that consists of two parts. The upper half is the power distribution panel part of the system that includes all of the AC power outlet circuit breakers and the DC power outlet fuses and also includes a 30-amp AC power input circuit breaker from the generator and shore line power.

The bottom half of the system is the Parallax 7345 Charger/Converter section. Since it is only a single mode charger/converter, it is the problem area causing both slow recharge of deeply discharged coach batteries and then also over-charging them if left hooked up to shoreline power too long after the batteries finally reach full charge. This system charges the batteries at a single +13.8 VDC only. This voltage is too low for quick recharge of discharged batteries but also is too high of a voltage (causing boiling out of the battery water) when left on for extended periods of time when the batteries eventually reach full charge.

The Progressive Dynamics PD9160A Charger/Converter replaces only the bottom half of the system with a 3-mode unit. The three automatic modes it offers are +14.4 VDC for rapid initial recharge, +13.6 VDC for finish off charge, and +13.2 VDC for battery maintenance charge. Progressive Dynamics does not offer the power distribution panel top half of the system. So for the factory to offer you the top half made by Parallax and the bottom half made by Progressive Dynamics, it would require them to modify the initial Parallax system in a manner similar to what you would need to do in the field as a product modification - I guess I don't see them doing that.

[bcope01]

Progressive Dynamics may not make one, but WFCO (World Friendship Company) makes a complete 3-stage unit in 35, 45, or 55 amps outputs, with or without an integrated automatic transfer switch (ATS) for the generator. See details at: http://www.bestconverter.com/view_category.asp?cat=65

The Born Free factory may put one of these in your new coach if you request it. This would be a big improvement over the standard unit.

[jdarryl]

If I understand what you are saying Bill, the WFCO is a complete unit that would replace the complete unit that Born Free puts into it's coaches.

What is the cost of the replacement after the fact?

I really appreciate the input from this memebers of this forum, it's oustanding
to have information like this as we are embarking on this new adventure.

Thanks!

[bcope01]

If I understand what you are saying Bill, the WFCO is a complete unit that would replace the complete unit that Born Free puts into it's coaches.

What is the cost of the replacement after the fact?

I really appreciate the input from this memebers of this forum, it's oustanding
to have information like this as we are embarking on this new adventure.

Thanks!

JD:
Yes, the unit I described above would replace the complete unit that Born Free puts into it's coaches. Bestconverter.com sells the 55 amp unit for $209 without the ATS and for $279 with ATS.

If you want to replace the stock unit "after the fact", then you could go with the WFCO converter replacement kit (see picture) which just replaces the lower charger/converter section of the stock unit. This replacement kit upgrades the stock unit to 3-stage charging capability. It can easily be installed by the coach owner. This kit in the 55 amp output is available from Bestconverter.com for $215: http://www.bestconverter.com/view_category.asp?cat=64

Another option "after the fact" is to do the upgrade with the Progressive Dynamics converter described by Bill Hemme, although I think that upgrade process is a little more complex.

Bill

[lassen]

Bill....The WFCO converter your displaying is the same one I was converting to, from the Parallax 7345. The change out was fairly simple and the batteries charged as normal. However with the batteries fully charged and after turning on a few lights, the converter fan kicked in and this was last fall when the temperature in the coach was in the fifties.

In doing some experimenting, turn on maybe three lights, the fan goes wrrr....wrrr...wrrr....wrrr (on-off on-off on-off on-off). Turn on one more light (fan on), turn off two lights (fan off). Best Converter hadn't expierenced this before and sends a replacement.

Installed second converter....same result. Conversation with techie at WFCO and this would be normal. The fan circuit is load and not temperature sensitive. So anytime batts. are charging or about four lights are on the fan is running or cycling on-off and this noise is right in the middle of the living space.

Another conversation with Best Converter and we go with the PD9160 with a fan that is temperature sensitive. I had Best Converter send with the PD9160 the metal mounting shelf they use for the WFCO. The two pieces went together just fine and now no fan noise.

So the change out was for the price of the PD9160 which included the Charge Wizard and then I sold the 7345 on E-Bay for $102.00.

Jack

[bcope01]

Wow, this is the first I've heard about the whirring of the WFCO converter/charger fan. I've read many posts about the WFCO on this and several other RV forums and no mention of this phenomenon. When I found the money, I was going to install the WFCO upgrade myself. Just a couple of days ago I contacted another Born Free owner that had installed the WFCO upgrade kit soliciting his opinion of the converter. He said that it worked fine.

Do you think Bestconverter was up front with you when they said that they hadn't experienced this before. This is a quote from their web site regarding the WFCO converters: "These units are so quiet; you can literally install them under your bed and never be disturbed. The quiet cooling fan only operates when needed and is extremely quiet."

I wonder which converter would whir more, the WFCO in response to load or the Progressive Dynamics in response to temperature?

I also like the option of mating the PD9160 with the metal mounting shelf they use for the WFCO. That eliminates the steps for customizing the stock converter housing described in Bill Hemme's installation instructions for the PD9160.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would buy a Parallax 7345, even at the bargain price of $102.

[whemme]

Some time after I had published the detailed procedure to replace the Magnetek/Parallax 7345 Charger/Converter with the 3-stage Progressive Dynamics 9160A Charger/Converter and Charge Wizard, BestConverter.com developed a complete conversion kit based on the WFCO Charger/Converter.

Although I have no experience with that particular unit, it appears to accomplish the same thing as the PD9160A with Charge Wizard and would be a simpler installation since BestConverter.com has done a lot of the assembly work for you. Their website has detailed information (including a link to my PD9160A conversion website) on both systems so that you can make an informed choice.

Just wanted to let everyone know that in my experience using the PD9160A, it's cooling fan very rarely comes on and when it does it is generally when charging the batteries on a warm day. I don't believe I have ever heard it come on at night and disturb our sleep.

[bjepp]

Being a novice at RVing let alone power converters, please help me understand this issue. I think I understand that without a 3 stage charger which is not in Born Free coaches the batteries will over charge and shorten their life. As to the retrofits I am mistified.

Thanks,

Bob

[whemme]

bjepp,

What I am relating to you here is my experience with owning two Born Free coaches over a 6 year time period both equipped with the Magnetek/Parallax 7345 single-stage charger/converter. On my current coach a year ago I replaced the 7345 with a Progessive Dynamics 9160A Charger/Converter with the Charge Wizard option.

In my experience, if you do a lot of dry camping, then you will be using your generator a lot to recharge your coach batteries. If your coach is equipped as normal with a pair of Interstate SRM-27 deep cycle batteries, you can expect that they will last at most 2 days of dry camping before becoming fully discharged. The way the 7345 single-stage charger works, it would take either running your generator or being plugged into shore line power 3 to 4 days for the charger to fully charge and top off your pair of coach batteries.

Most people would not want to run their generator that long. Why does it take so long for the 7345 to recharge? It is because it has a single output charge voltage of +13.8 VDC. The 7345 is rated at 45 amps output but that full charge rate will only occur for a short time during the initial part of the charge cycle. After the charging battery reaches that 13.8 voltage, the charging current starts to trail off such that the average charging current during the 3 to 4 days it would take to bring the batteries back to 100% would be on the order of only 5 amps - the very reason it will takes so long to recharge the batteries.

The Progressive Dynamics 9160A Charger/Converter with the Charge Wizard or the WFCO 55-amp Charger/Converter will recharge your batteries at the much higher initial voltage of +14.4 VDC for the first 4 hours before automatically switching to a +13.6 VDC charge voltage for another 30 hours before finally switching to +13.2 VDC, the final maintenance charging level that is low enough not to boil out (evaporate) the water from the batteries. The key is that these 3-stage charger/converters will recharge your batteries to at least 90% of capacity within only 4 hours whereas the 7345 would probably take at least 2 days to reach that same 90% charge. In other words, it takes much less running time of your generator to keep at least a useful charge level in your batteries while dry camping.

Now the other issue is the opposite of dry camping and that is when you are in a RV park for extended periods of time (like 4 days or more which is common) and you of course are plugged into shoreline power. The problem now is that the 7345 will be over-charging your batteries because of the constant +13.8 VDC charge voltage. Owners that understand this problem can get around it by shutting off the AC input power 30-amp circuit breaker in their Magnetek/Parallax power panel or just unplugging the coach from shoreline power for maybe 80 to 90% of the time while in an RV park. Of course you then need to pay attention to the actual charge level in your batteries to keep them near full charge.

This same issue is present when you have your RV in storage and you want to plug it in to maintain the coach battery charge. This is the case where most deep cycle batteries are destroyed by the 7345 charger - if you are not carefull and you leave the coach plugged in for a long time during storage, the water in the batteries can be completely boiled out and your batteries are then toast.

So you now can appreciate why a significant number of Born Free owners desire to convert to a 3-stage charger/converter. If you don't plan to do much dry camping and you avoid extended time periods of being plugged into shoreline power while in RV parks and during periods of RV storage, you could get along very nicely with the standard 7345 charger/converter in your Born Free. Most owners do.

[lassen]

bjepp....And anyone else not understanding our power system and the problem with the 7345 converter, I urge you to read Bill Hemme's last post again. Bill I believe you covered it all, that was the most informative post I've seen on this subject.

bcope01....Yes, I too thought the WFCO was the cat's meow and it was an easy change-out. I'm sure it is a good unit and would be just fine if not in my living space. But another problem with a fan running too much is the lint and dust it collects which in turn interferes with cooling air.

I had at the time read some posts of WFCO problems on "Good Sam RV Net Forum" including one on the (wrrr) problem in a Pick-up camper. But I didn't pay attention and assumed that those were faulty units.

I thought Best Converters was on the level and would highly recommend them as they went out of their way to make sure I was a satisfied customer. And when I questioned the WFCO techie about that fan circuit his explanation was it was designed to kick-in with a load of I believe between 6 to 8 amps. Why? Because with temperature sensitive activation the components are already exposed to higher temperature. I guess to me that means components last longer but what about fans.

One other thought on changing out the converter, check your DC fuse board, if it is a later one and has the two 30amp fuses then you don't need to change it and Best Converter will give you credit. The reason the 7345 is saleable (and Camping World lists it for $209.00) is that it is an upgrade from the parallax 6300 series.

Jack

[tomdclark]

Bill (or whoever knows):

It's my understanding that, when connected to shore power for long periods, one can prevent the battery overcharging problem by switching the battery disconnect switch to the OFF position. If this is the case, it seems simpler than unplugging from shore power or flipping the circuit breaker.

Or have I missed something as usual?

[bcope01]

It's my understanding that, when connected to shore power for long periods, one can prevent the battery overcharging problem by switching the battery disconnect switch to the OFF position. If this is the case, it seems simpler than unplugging from shore power or flipping the circuit breaker.

Or have I missed something as usual?

Tom:

That is exactly what I do now with my Parallax 7345 and I haven't had a problem with overcharging batteries. But you have to remember to turn it off when you are plugged into shore power, and also remember to turn it on when you are going down the road so that your alternator tops off the coach batteries. At my age, sometimes its harder to remember to do things than it is to do the just do the upgrade.

Bill