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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Location: Mobile, AL
For info I've visited 34 of the 38 presidential grave sites with four more left to go. The coldest weather I encounted was in Greenville, TN with a 21 degree overnight low. All through Vermont, New Hampshire, Ohio, and Illinois I had above average temperatures. However, tonight and tomorrow night in Kansas (Eisenhower in Abilene) the lows are around 15 degrees.

The question. Should I turn off the water pump and drain the pressure from all the outlets? Will this help in avoiding a frozen water line? It seems to me a good idea as it relieves the pressure on the plumbing, but sometimes the obvious is not the best choice. Any feedback?

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Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Location: Prescott, AZ
Dallas,
We have over-nighted when low temps were in single diggets with no inside plumbing issues. Keep the heat on and cabinet doors open. Don't think it matters about the water pump. Holding tanks and their valves will likely freeze so do any dumping before, not after. Be sure water heater is on. Tanks will most likely thaw next day if temps get appreciably above freezing.
Stay Warm!
Ralph

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2011 24RB
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Location: Spencer, IA
I don't think whether the water pump is on off will make any difference in the freezing point of water. My experience with my 2002 BF 26' RSB coach is that the water lines that wii freeze first are the hot and cold water lines in the left side rear wall area that connect to inside shower faucets and also the water in the outside shower hose. Also the water in the plastic pipes from the grey & black water tanks out to the two drain valves can easily freeze breaking open those pipes and valve housings. So be sure to drain both of those tanks completely to prevent that.

One good reason to turn off you water pump is that if you burst a pressurized water line due to freezing, at least you will prevent flooding the inside of your coach and causing more damage other than just the burst pipe.

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Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:12 am 
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Location: Mobile, AL
Last night I placed a thermometer on the floor between the outside wall and the shower wall at the point where the water lines take a 90 degree turn to feed the shower faucet.

At 4 a.m. the outside temp was 21 and the thermometer read 43.

At 9 a.m. the outside temp was 16 and the thermometer read 37.

I used the tempertature reports on weather radio for Lawrence, KS.

I used a digital thermometer that I have checked for accuracy by comparing it to other thermometers.

The readings I took appear linear. I would like to broaden the experiment by additional readings at lower temperatures to determine if a 20 degree differential holds true. However, I am not planning to stay around where you Northerners live. I am headed south today.

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Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:38 am 
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Location: South Salem, NY
Dallas, thanks for the update and the temperature data. We have camped in as low a temperature as you did with no problems, but never went as far as putting a thermometer in that area. We have an extra digital thermometer, so maybe we will try your experiment, too, next time we camp in cold temperatures. Our next trip will also be to warmer climes, so with luck, we won't have a need to try the experiment.

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Joe and Lucinda
Tonto, Meadow and Shadow, the papillons
Shiloh and Morpho at Rainbow Bridge
2017 Spirit
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Location: Spencer, IA
The reason for my comment that the water lines in the outside wall for the shower in our 2002 BF 26' RSB coach is several years ago when we were on our way back from AZ to IA in late March we over nighted at a Walmart in Gallop, NM. The temperature went down to about 10 degrees that night and when I went to take a shower in the morning, I could not get any water flow from the hot water faucet.

Took my wife's hair dryer along with an extension cord and placed the hair dryer inside the left rear corner compartment to thaw out the frozen hot water line there. Luckily, the water in that line did not freeze hard enough to burst it open. I had however poured one gallon of pink RV antifreeze into both the gray and black water tanks to protect the outside plumbing and valving for those tanks so experienced no freezing problem there.

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Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Location: South Salem, NY
Related to Bill Hemme's post, last December when planning our trip south, the forecast called for temperatures in the 10 degree range the night before our planned departure (nothing below 25 prior to that). I called Kim at Born Free and asked him about camping in those temperatures, and he kinda hemmed and hawed. We decided to depart a day early and stay with friends near Philadelphia, where it was only going to go down to 20!

Kim did relate one interesting story during our phone conversation. Evidently they had one customer have their Born Free left in very cold temperatures for quite a while without winterizing and with an almost full water tank (I gathered they had an emergency of some sort and had to leave home for an extended period of time). When they got back home, they had, as Kim said, a 29 gallon ice cube and all lines frozen. They brought it to the factory, expecting a very expensive repair. They brought the unit inside and let it thaw out naturally (no heat applied other than inside air). It took about a week, Kim said. Then the test - turn on the pump. Not a single leak! So, the piping used is pretty darn forgiving.

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Joe and Lucinda
Tonto, Meadow and Shadow, the papillons
Shiloh and Morpho at Rainbow Bridge
2017 Spirit
Formerly 2006 24RB


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:58 pm 
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Location: Spencer, IA
Interesting and probably quite lucky!

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Bill Hemme - Spencer, Iowa
E-mail: whemme@earthlink.net
2002 Born Free (Ford E-450 V10) 26' RSB
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:30 am 
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Location: Klamath Falls, OR
Sam Ryan wrote:
If all that is true, then all the precautionary draining of water, including the water heater from the entire coach when stored in subfreezing conditions is wasted exercise and expense. As long as you have the time to wait for the water inside the coach to thaw, you're good to go. Good to know for storing the coach for extended periods below freezing.


Let us know how that works out for you Sam. :lol: I think these people had a direct line to the guy upstairs. You, on the other hand, might want a spare water heater and pump on hand. :wink:

I've had three freeze ups - that I'm aware of. The P trap in our shower froze and broke one day while driving over one of the passes near our home. I was not expecting it to be that cold but watched as the BF's built-in thermostat hit 32 degrees a couple of times. That P trap hangs down in the open air and when we got home it was cracked and leaking. So be aware that one is very vulnerable. It's also not a critical failure and is very easily replaced.

Another time the hot water line froze in the corner behind the shower. After thawing it didn't leak. Pex seems pretty flexible that way. 'Had pex lines freeze in the house a couple of years ago and they also thawed and worked OK. I've since wired in a 200W AC trouble lamp on a thermostatic switch in that corner. I've written about that here: http://www.bornfreervclub.org/bulletin_board/viewtopic.php?t=1200&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=trouble+light+shower+thermostat&start=15

In the Spring after the 3rd year of winterizing by blowing out the lines I found the pump had suffered freeze damage. It had slow seeping leaks in the housing. I replaced it and have since used compressed air to blow out the pump when winterizing with no subsequent problems.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:27 am 
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Location: South Salem, NY
For those of you who think I was advocating non-winterizing, fuhgedaboudit! I agree with Bill Hemme and the Bandfields that these people were extraordinarily lucky. I just thought it was an interesting story.

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Joe and Lucinda
Tonto, Meadow and Shadow, the papillons
Shiloh and Morpho at Rainbow Bridge
2017 Spirit
Formerly 2006 24RB


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:59 pm 
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Location: Mobile, AL
Sam Ryan,

You have a sense of humor!! "Ted Williams' head may stand a chance after all." Don't stop now, we need all the laughs we can get.

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Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:29 am 
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Location: Camden, SC
Dallis, what was the temperature inside the coach when you did your experiment with the thermometer in the space behind the shower? It's supposed to reach the low 20's here tonight and tomorrow and then get warm again. I'm planning to use the unit in a couple of weeks and I'm not wanting to winterize just yet. Every thing is drained, I poured a little pink stuff in the trap, and am leaving the furnace on about 55 and all the doors open.

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Jim and Janice Hayes
2002 24RB


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:30 am 
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When I go to bed I set the thermostat at 63 degrees. Some parts of the coach drop a few degrees below that.

I am in Indianapolis this morning heading east. If I encounter overnight lows in the single digits or lower teens I'll replicate the experiment to determine if I get any significant differences.

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Dallas Baillio
2001 26RSB
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Location: Camden, SC
Thanks!

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2002 24RB


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Location: South Salem, NY
Jim and Janice,

I can't say what the temperature gets to back there, but we have camped in temperatures as low as 17 with all fresh water systems operational with no problem. Like Dallas, we heat the interior to about 60 degrees with our 1500 watt electric heater. We prop open all cabinet doors a bit where fresh water lines run (in our 24RB, that means the lower galley doors and the doors in the bathroom, including the closet door). We also make sure the hot water heater is turned on, though if you don't have water in it, DON'T DO THAT. So, your plan sounds fine.

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Joe and Lucinda
Tonto, Meadow and Shadow, the papillons
Shiloh and Morpho at Rainbow Bridge
2017 Spirit
Formerly 2006 24RB


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