Ball joint failure

[whemme]

Took my 2002 BF 26' RSB in for service today at an independent shop that I trust and asked them to install grease zerks on my four ball joints. My unit is built on a 2000 Ford E-450 chassis. When I went to pick it up, I was informed that the ball joints on my E-450 were not pre-drilled and capped so that installing zerks was not possible.

Anyone else out there with a E-450 that they could not install zerks into the existing ball joints?

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

It was actually a nice day today in southern Oregon. So I crawled under the RV and took some pictures of what we're talking about here. This is our 2005 e450. 'Can't say that your's will be the same but it should be similar in design. From reports on this website the grease ports vary from model to model or year to year.

Mike

[bill crommett]

Sam: This is just conjecture, but do you suppose that Ford Motor Co. didn't put zerks on the ball joints to protect them from over zealous grease monkeys from blowing out the seals ? Next question: What do new seals cost ?
Third question: How often does the ball joint need to be greased if the seal is blown ?

( I always have more questions than answers)

Bill

[BornFree_n_Now]

[quote="Sam Ryan"]


_____________________________________________________________

Socket size to remove factory installed caps, hex-bolts: 9/32

4pcs. Straight grease Zerks 1/4"-28 Bought at Pep Boys auto parts.

Wrench size used to install grease zerks: 5/16"
_____________________________________________________________

Sam:

Thank you for the information on size ~ BTW, I was told that the reason for the plugs vs. the Zerks in the first place, is that the same parts (the ones the Zerks are affixed to), are used for both 2WD & 4WD applications ~~ the story is, that in the latter application, the upper Zerk has clearance issues, and hence the plugs are put in all of the units as they don’t know, at time of manufacture, what application they will be used in. While I have not investigated the matter further, I thought I would at least pass along the explanation I was given.

[BornFree_n_Now]

[quote="Sam Ryan"][quote="BornFree_n_Now"]


BornFree_n_now:
I noticed you're in California.......and Pep Boys is out of Los Angeles. You probably have tons of stores there, as in Texas. At least in the larger cities. So, I'll clue you in on the exact package of grease fittings I bought at Pep Boys Auto Parts.

It is: POWERBUILT Item #648783 1/4" - 28, 8 pc. -@ $4.99 + sales tax
A pre-packaged assortment of grease fittings. You will utilize (4) of the straight fittngs on your BF. You will have (4) remaining elbow-jointed grease fittings left.

Sam:

Thank you for the additional info

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

When taking the pictures I noticed the boots around the ball joints are very small. There is no volume provided for expansion. Normally, it's this volume that gives the mechanic an indication to the progress as the joint takes on grease - or not. I'd like to know how Ford expects a mechanic to know when these joints need grease, or when resistance is due to a blocked zerk or when the joint is full of grease. It seems to me that it would be very easy to blow a seal on a ball joint of this design. Note the difference between the ball joint boots and those around the tie rods and steering linkage joints - very different.

Are the grease ports plugged because Ford doesn't think they need lubed? Are we sure that Ford doesn't consider the e450 ball joints much like the permalube joints in most cars today? In other words, maybe we're to assume that if the ball joints ever need greasing it's because they have 150,000+ miles and its time to replace them anyway. Anyone have the service CDs?

Mike

[Don Pederson]

I have a 2004 RSB, and one year ago I had it aligned for less than $100 and the mechanic put in zerks. Everything is fine; got 26K on th eunit now and ready to go out on a two months safari to Pennsylvania, and then Minnesota, Iowa, and south back to Florida.
Don Pederson

[Fourwinds]

Bill,

The 2002 26' RSB BF we purchased this April has no such fittings. I found this out after Larry showed me his new Zerks he had installed on his - also 2002 26' RSB BF. Go figure!

Mike & Jean, my first thought as I lay on my side under the vehicle, was perhaps Ford made some models "to be" sealed permanently.

Now this discussion of having the locations where they are - for those who have them - drilled and tapped to take new Zerks is prompting me to ask my "trusted and friend" mechanic we have used some 21 or 22 years.

I went to our local, large Ford dealer in Bakersfield, CA yesterday to purchase an oil filter and oil to change it myself prior to our 3000 + mile trip we are planning next week - our first "real RV trip" - - and was told this local dealer does no work on Ford RV's whatsoever. Not even oil changes, simply because they are an RV ! He said I'd have to find an RV dealer or truck repair shop or independent to do any work.

So if another shop does something that proves incorrect and one would go to Ford for help, Ford would tell me it was my fault for not having Ford do the work, although the local Ford dealer says, we don't work on Ford's with RV's units built on. Fine howdy do!

Our BF has been parked in our drive since returning from Texas. Yesterday I checked the tires for air pressure and found both front tires were 62 psi, while the rear dualies were at 82 psi. Why do you suppose this difference? I thought the back coach area would weigh more than the engine and cab. Any wisdom talkers have an answer?

Jess & Bonnie
2002 26 RSB

[bill crommett]

I had a similar problem with a Winnebago on a Ford Chassis. I made an appointment with the service manager to check out the windshield wiper module, and when I took the unit back the next day a different service writer was in charge. He refused to honor the previos appointment because "we don't know anything about motorhomes". Even when I pointed out that the chassis was just another Ford truck chassis, he didn't want his mechanics to get involved. My next stop was at my independent mechanic who crawled under the front and pulled out a little black box and said " we will replace this and see what happens" End of problem !

Bill

[Fourwinds]

Interesting, Bill.

This isn't important but I just feel like chatting, so here goes. We have two Ford dealer locations here, owned by the same man, Jim Burke, now an elderly gentleman. Since they built an Auto Mall within a mile of our home, virtually every auto and truck dealership scattered around town during the previous many years, is driven to build either a satellite dealership or transfer totally to the new Auto Mall center, that goes for several blocks! They are still expanding it.

I visited the newest one in the Auto Mall, since it's close to my home. A three minute drive. My impressioins are compared to what I am used to at the Toyota dealership where I take our 1/2 ton Tundra pick up for oil changes, since it's only $24.95 and is free if not completed in 30 minutes and the work to get to the oil filter is more involved than I wish to face every 5000 miles. They are organized!

The Ford service area was dead. No one came out to check with me. No visible organization. Quiet as a cemetery. I saw people driving up for service, I assume, get out of their vehicles and look around and then begin to walk around looking for a humanoid type person to deal with.

As I drove away with my oil and filter, I thought, "Maybe I would not want to bring my Ford V-10 and Born Free here ANYWAY!" No one was visible in the sales room. No salesmen standing outside. It looked like everyone was on one long coffee break. I thought it quite strange. Almost causing you to question if they were even open! Weird.

That's it. "And that's all I have to say about that."

Jess

[Fourwinds]

I checked with my "excellent / honest" 4 year college trained (Canada)
mechanic today. He said for those units, such as mine, that do not have the plugs to be removed, he would leave well enough alone. He said
it's most likely there would not be a problem much before 100,000 or
120,000 - thereabouts.

It's true, if they go then, it would mean replacement. Who knows what they would cost by that time. But he guestimated a $500 ish job.
Meanwhile that's a LOT of traveling, a LOT of miles.

So......

Jess

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I checked with my "excellent / honest" 4 year college trained (Canada)
mechanic today. He said for those units, such as mine, that do not have the plugs to be removed, he would leave well enough alone. He said
it's most likely there would not be a problem much before 100,000 or
120,000 - thereabouts.

It's true, if they go then, it would mean replacement...

Jess, I believe your friend has rightly stated Ford's philosophy on the subject as evidenced by their E450 ball joint design and configuration. I'm not taking sides on this issue - just restating two schools of thought on the subject. A couple of weeks ago I took my BF in for a recall on the Diesel emissions system. I asked the guys at our local Ford dealer what was their opinion of the ball joints and they looked for any Ford documentation on the subject. It's not covered by Ford! In other words, the ball joints on a Ford 450 don't require maintenance until they fail. We don't know if that failure is planned to occur at 80K or 160K miles however, we can assume that since Ford has not documented a lube maintenance schedule nor provided Zerk fittings, the ball joints are lubed for their planned life. That is School of Thought #1 and the official (by default) Ford position on the subject.

School of thought #2:
The local mechanics also stated their opinion on the matter, "If it can be lubed - lube it!" This also makes sense. You will extend the life of any joint by lubing it. However! There is a Gotcha in this case. The Ford 450 ball joints are designed with no extra capacity for taking on grease in the sense of the traditional lube job. The rubber boots can be easily overfilled and ruptured.

Personally, I will take this approach: At bi-yearly intervals I will pull the plugs and check the resevoirs for sufficient volume of clean grease and check the joints for signs of squeeze-out. At such time as wear allows squeeze-out and the cavity will take on new grease or the grease shows signs of age I will add clean new grease to the resevoir but not under pressure via zerk fitting. I will insert a tube and pump in clean grease while flushing old grease and any dirt which may have worked in through the joint.

In my opinion, this strategy will allow me to monitor the ball joints' wear, react appropriately to any abnormal wear before excessive damage occurs, purge old grease before it hardens and keep the resevoir filled with clean new grease and possibly extend the manufacturer's life expectancy.

Also in my opinion, adding zerk fittings and doing routine lubes at traditional 6000 to 12000 mile intervals is not necessary and, in fact, risks blown seals if not performed with extreme care. Once blown, seals will collect dirt which can propogate into the joint. To reduce contamination, a blown seal should be routinely greased under pressure to purge dirt and prevent excessive wear.

Mike

[Fourwinds]

Mike,

Good post. Makes sense. BUT........ of all the grease available, the various brand names, types, etc. what kind of grease is to be used
in these - apparently universally applicable - joints?

Thanks,
Jess

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

I don't pay much attention to brands except Wix or Carquest oil filters based on a product test that was widely discussed on the internet about 10 years ago. I generally purchase a well known name brand lithium cartridge for my grease gun and high temp grease in cans for manually packing wheel bearings. I have to look in a maintenance book for specific ratings needed when purchasing. ('Can't remember things like that anymore andthere are too many choices.)

Regarding brands - in general I do not use factory replacements for routine maintenance items like filters of any kind or shock absorbers, belts, hoses, ignition components, etc. They tend to use the lowest cost no-name brand available and charge way too much. They aren't as bad as they used to be but IMO, you can almost always do better with after market replacement parts.

Mike

[Fourwinds]

I'm t rying to finalize on tire pressure before pulling out Sunday.
On our 26 foot BF rsb, is now BF Goodrich Commercial T/A all season
tires.

Tire size: LT 225 / 75R16 LRE M+S (whatever the LRE M+S means)


Tire says 80 psi max pressure.

On the Ford door jam it says 65 psi cold for the front and 80 psi cold on the rear.

Anyone know what is right here? All these mixed messages.

Jess