Water Heaters

[Fourwinds]

Although I have yet to graduate from "Battery School," I'm wondering about the "Water Heater class."

In Bill Bryant's little booklet, "Motorhomes Made Easy with Bill's Hints" he says along with turning off the frig before you pull in to a fuel station, to also turn off the water heater or anything running on Propane.

We've not attempted to turn on the water heater yet and don't even know if it has water in it. When you full your fresh water tank does the water heater fill also automatically? How can one tell? The plastic lines are in what I call an inverted "H" shape. Is the "I" part of the "H" the bypass?
Should that be open or closed when operating the water heater?

Does anything have to be turned on before turning on the ON Switch for the water heater under the bathroom sink?

Making my hair loss on top even greater with all the head scratching I'm doing!

Jess

[Steve W]

If our coach is going to be in storage for any length of time, we drain our tanks including the water heater. Refilling the tanks is both quick and easy. Born Free has simplified the procedure very nicely. My suggestion is call Kim Olson at Born Free and he can either walk you through it or send you the necessary paper work. He is a busy man and sometimes hard to reach, but if you leave your name and number he will get back to you. I have called him several times, and he has yet to fail me. I understand that it makes no difference whether you are the owner of a new rig or if you purchased used, Born Free is more than happy to provide what help they can.

[Fourwinds]

Steve, I have spoken to Kim already on a shade problem. We had to send a shade to Rainbow Shades to be repaired and have newer parts put on. Not sure what they are.

Thanks

[Trisha]

I am pretty sure that to fill the water heater, all you need to do is turn the water on (water pump) or city water source, and turn the tap on hot. Pulls the water right through.

First, make sure the bypass valves are not closed. They should be right behind the water heater. If they run the same direction as the pipes (the handles) they are open and water is going through. If they are cross direction to the pipe, they are closed.

The reason for turning the frig and water heater off, is so that they don't try to light (pilot) when you're pumping gas (or someone else nearby is). You don't have to turn the gas off, just make sure anything that has a pilot light is off.

There's a lot of things to remember, but it gets easier. The first two weeks, I was sure I'd wreck the rig. After a year and a number of months of use, it's all pretty much second nature. (Unless you start talking about zerks and boots.) I think those guys spend too much time ont he ground under their rigs instead of driving.



trish

[Fourwinds]

Thanks Trisha,

I still have a question on whether or not the bypass line, which on my rig runs vertical, connected to the cold and hot water lines which run horizontal - - should this vertical line remain open or closed? I have a feeling it should be shut off, except when draining everything, but it's only a guess on my part. I can't recall what the owner told me as he gave me a walk-through tour before we took possession.

The high tech terminology of any field I am not acquainted with to that extent is like Chinese to me in terms of an understandable meaning. And the forum is not the place for courses like, Electronics 101, RV Plumbing 101, etc. It's fine for the guys knowledgable in these things to flap the jaw about, but just tell me to plug A into D and then perhaps, tell me why A is to go into D rather than into B. That makes sense to me.

If I began quoting from my previous profession, I'm sure I would leave many of them scratching their heads as well. So, we're even! LOL But let me say I highly admire the individuals who are so proficient in their training and/or understanding of the quirks, neutrons, thing-a-ma-jiggies, we un-trained people don't understand. I'm very happy they ARE AROUND to help duh-brains like me. Notice I did NOT include you in this category, Trisha!

I bought a gallon of window cleaner, arrived home and discovered I didn't have it. So I'm off to do battle with the store.

Ciao!

Jess

[robert newby]

Hi Jess -- I note you are in Bakersfield -- if you get to San Luis Obispo give me a call and I will be glad to walk you thru systems on your Born Free -- my cel no. is 805-441-1933 -- happy traveling in your Born Free -- Bob Newby

[Fourwinds]

Hey Bob,

How very nice of you to offer to help with a hands-on explaination.
That would be most practical and helpful, I'm sure. I have noted
your cell phone #.

Bonnie and I will discuss it. We are planning a trip to Montana to attend a grandson's H.S. graduation the last week of May into first week of June.
Not real sure if we could squeeze in a weekend before then.....but sure would like to. If it looks like a possibility, I will phone you and we can work out a time convenient to you. We both feel that the Morro Bay
and Pismo central coast area will be an area we will probably visit
more than many other locations, given it's so pleasant and about the closest, other than some mountain camps in the Tehachapi's.

I will keep your number. It may be even after our Montana trip that we meet you. Maybe by then I won't need the walk-through so much, but perhaps we can go out for fish-n-chips together or at least meet you in person.

Again, this was very kind of you to offer. It's MUCH appreciated and sounds good to me. Just the timing is all I question now......and given
the horrendous fuel prices, and our upcoming trip, we may feel the need to concerve and put off a San Luis trip till we return.

Our res phone is: 661-398-1188 Mobile: 661-599-9135

Jess

[Dave&JanPotter]

I still have a question on whether or not the bypass line, which on my rig runs vertical, connected to the cold and hot water lines which run horizontal - - should this vertical line remain open or closed? I have a feeling it should be shut off, except when draining everything, but it's only a guess on my part. I can't recall what the owner told me as he gave me a walk-through tour before we took possession.

Helo Jess,
The bypass line is there to make it easier for you to fill the system with antifreeze if that is the method you use to winterize the fresh water system. Without a bypass line, you would have to add an extra 6 gallons of antifreeze to the system. In normal operation, the valve on the bypass line is closed and the valves to the heater are open. When you add antifreeze to the system, open the bypass valve and close the valves on the cold water in and hot water out from the heater. Drain the heater by removing the zinc anode plug on the front and you now can fill the fresh water system with RV antifreeze, available from WalMart, Camping world etc and protect it from freezing. There are some other things to do to winterize the water system but your question was about the water heater bypass valve so I won't go too far afield.
If you are puzzled by all of the terminology and wondering about what needs to be done, there are two great books that break the systems down in simple terms and describe what has to be done to maintain an RV. They both have lots of pictures. Woodall's RV Owner's Handbook and Trailer Life"s RV Repair and Maintenance Manual. Camping world carries them both and if I remember right, we got our copy of Woodall's free by letting the Camping World Insurance rep give us a quote.
We just got back from two days of sun camped 50 feet from the shore on Puget Sound watching the seals, gulls and great sunsets behind the mountains. You'll have grand days like that which will make all your frustrations with the systems disappear. Happy Camping.

[Fourwinds]

Hello David and Janice,

Thank you so much for the clear-to-follow explaination and instructions re: the hot water tank/heater. That clears it up alright. BIG thanks!

I am getting more and more eager to personally meet these Leapin' Lyons people. So helpful. Each post is filled with "vibs" (old 60's term there!) of established friendship. I like it !



Camping on Puget Sound. "Sigh!" My wife was born in Stanwood. Any idea of where that little community is? Her dad was the doctor there and started the first (small) hospital. Their custom-built Norwegian style home is still there. We look forward to heading up through Washington State. Bonnie has Uncle/Aunt/cousins in Enumclaw. We have former classmates in Lake Stevens, WA and now we have the Potter's! Someday, that region is at the top of our list as one of the places we long to visit. Your weekend sounds just lovely! We can't wait to soak up some quiet with no TV, radio. Just read, soak up nature's panopy of beauty, and breathe it all in to let the pores of our spirits soak it up and stretch in sheer delight.

David, what do you know about "in series" hook up for 6 volt (as they are called: golf cart batteries)? I'm going to have to buy new batteries. I was told at Camping World I'd have to buy a 10 to 12 Amp Battery Charger to charge them, preferably with a "De Calcification" feature on the battery charger. He said Costco and Sams Club has them. I have no idea of the cost.

Thanks again for your help and "Happy Camping" wishes.

Jess and Bonnie Dixon
and Big Golden Retriever, Koda
2002 Born Free 26 rsb

[Trisha]

I am so glad you wereh helped. I have not been on for a week or so.

Just be sure that the water is able to flow freely into the water heater before it's turned on. Also make sure that the water pump is on, OR you are conncected to city water. This way, you have water pressure (the entire water system is pressurized) in the water heater so you won't be heating without water.

I guess you can burn out heat elements if you don't have water in the system. Water pump on, then hot water heater on. (Unless you're hooked up to a turned-on city water source. And of course this means you must have your 'bypasses' set so water is flowing into the tank.

I believe a pictgure is worth a thousan dwords, and I would like to see the manual remade with photos.

Matter of fact, maybe I'll offer to do thejob, FOR PAY. So don't volunteer me.

Patricia

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

Just be sure that the water is able to flow freely into the water heater before it's turned on. Also make sure that the water pump is on, OR you are conncected to city water. This way, you have water pressure (the entire water system is pressurized) in the water heater so you won't be heating without water.

Trish, you are not wrong however, some might be misled by this. The important point here is that the water heater should be full of water before turning on the water heater. Make sure the lines are properly opened or closed to fill the WH. Pressurize the system (via pump or city supply) and purge/bleed the air bubble from the WH by turning on a hot water faucet or the pressure relief valve while the WH fills. (Using the pressure relief valve proves to you that the WH is actually filling/full.) Once the air is bled from the system it is OK to turn the water heater on.

As written, someone might forget to bleed the air from the WH tank before turning on the heat. This could result in damage to the WH as you correctly pointed out. Also, once the WH is properly filled and the air is bled it is OK to leave the WH on while the pump is off and the city water is disconnected.

Here are a few water system tips we practice:
Always turn the water pump off when traveling or when you will be away from the rig. It doesn't take long to empty your fresh water tank and (over) fill a waste tank if a faucet is left to drip or a drain valve vibrates open. If this happens when you are at home (in your rig) you will hear the pump running frequently and you'll know there is a problem. This could also result in the water pump running dry for extended periods. Running some types of pumps dry for a short time (less than a minute) can result in damage.

We don't leave the city water hooked up and turned on unless we also have the gray tank hooked up and open. (For reasons cited in the post on the "Geo Method" http://www.bornfreervclub.org/bulletin_ ... sc&start=0 we don't leave the black tank valve open.)

When we have shore power we leave the WH electric element turned on all the time and we turn the propane off). When shore power isn't available, to conserve propane, we turn the WH on first thing when we wake. After showers and breakfast dishes are done we turn it off and the water stays warm through out the day. In the evening we heat up water to do dishes and turn the WH off after dishes. This provides enough hot water for our evening needs and it's usually still warm in the morning so it heats up quickly.

I believe a pictgure is worth a thousan dwords, and I would like to see the manual remade with photos.

Matter of fact, maybe I'll offer to do thejob, FOR PAY. So don't volunteer me.

I hope I'm not trashing your revenue opportunity Trish. I'm currently working on a series of tutorials for the water system to post on the forum. I'm just about finished with a tutorial on the WH. And there will be chapters on winterizing with compressed air and anti-freeze - including pictures.

Mike

[Dave&JanPotter]

Camping on Puget Sound. "Sigh!" My wife was born in Stanwood. Any idea of where that little community is?
David, what do you know about "in series" hook up for 6 volt (as they are called: golf cart batteries)? I'm going to have to buy new batteries. I was told at Camping World I'd have to buy a 10 to 12 Amp Battery Charger to charge them, preferably with a "De Calcification" feature on the battery charger. He said Costco and Sams Club has them. I have no idea of the cost.

Stanwood is about 50 miles north of us. A pretty town and the largest on Camano Island.

The comment about battery chargers that the tech at Camping World made to you applies to 12 v batteries as well. If you have the basic Parallax converter that BF installs, it is a notoriously poor and slow battery charger. I bought a new portable battery charger for about $40 at Wal Mart. It charges at a max of 12 amps vice the 6 amps on the parallax unit. The desulfation cycle is helpful but not absolutely necessary. Batteries lose their ability to hold a charge through a process involving the build up of material on the internal plates called sulphation. A battery charger with a desulphation cycle puts a higher charge on the battery under certain conditions which is helpful in reversing the sulphation process. I leave my portable hooked to the coach batteries all winter as it is a 3 stage and will not boil them dry. I do disconnect them from the coach circuits using the disconnect switch as I don't know what that higher voltage will do to the control circuit boards in the refrigerator and water heater.

Look us up when you come north as we are in the Sleepin' Lions program.

[Fourwinds]

So David and Janice,

Pray tell what is the "Sleepin' Lions program?" The "sleepin' " holds a strong appeal to me. Is that "age" talking?

Jess

[Trisha]

mike,

I think your tutorial will be great.

I was thinking of a manual with pictures that comes with all new rigs. Not everyone who buys a born free has internet (or wants it). Or has access to internet when they need the info.

I think there is uses for both. But some things should be in the manual. I plan to make a proposal.

Anyway...nuff said before I get scooped.

I was *told* by (I believe Kim) that you should have the water pump on if you have the water heater on. Wonder what that's about?

I know about turning the pump off when you're ging to be away or asleep. Or driving. I sometimes forget and so far i have been lucky. (The dirivng part.) I am glad that , in the case of using the water pump, any leak will be accompanied by the noise of the water pump and I'd know to search for it.

With city water, no warning. and how often we forget to turn the water off at the spigot when we are leaving. I know I forget often enough.

So many things to remember....

I only use my hot water heater when I need hot water. Usually shower time and dinner time. That's it. I turn it on for those, off the rest of the time. The water stays pretty hot for up to 24 hours anyway.

So my hot water heater is not on most of the time. But thanks for the reminder, I bet I need a new anode rod. Gotta go get one.

Ain't this fun???!!! <grin> It is when you're thinking about where you can go when you want, tho

Trish

[Mike Jean Bandfield]

mike,

I was thinking of a manual with pictures that comes with all new rigs. Not everyone who buys a born free has internet (or wants it). Or has access to internet when they need the info.

I think there is uses for both. But some things should be in the manual. I plan to make a proposal.

Yes, Born Free could use a better manual

I was *told* by (I believe Kim) that you should have the water pump on if you have the water heater on. Wonder what that's about?

That's probably a good rule of thumb, but I know we don't always follow it to the letter.

...I bet I need a new anode rod. Gotta go get one.

Check Bill Ruh's post on the anode. http://www.bornfreervclub.org/bulletin_ ... ght=atwood On my old Suburban I'd change the anode every 3 years.

Mike