HELP CLASS B SHORE POWER ISSUE 220/110

[landlordy]

shilohdad thanks again you have been very helpful. I have a breaker for the microwave and it runs off the inverter. The air con does not have a breaker but im not sure of it goes through the inverter or not because I never got a chance to try it and now i have no shore power. As far as i can tell my rv will not let the shore power in and that seems to be the only problem. You were right I started the van and the panel shows the battery charging very well when I do that. I opened up the breaker box and none of my breakers look to be burnt or anything. Im still hoping i blew something relatively easy to repair or replace. My new fear after hearing from you is that my air con is not going through the inverter and could have been hit w 220 direct and fried. God i hope not.

[landlordy]

Hey guys one more question a freedom 20 was just listed on ebay about 2 minutes ago. It is identical to my unit except it puts out 2000 watts instead of 1000. I could buy it and hook it up myself 6 wires and the battery cables. Even the owners manual is word for word the same. Is it ok to install one that puts out more watts?

[shilohdad]

I see no reason why that should be a problem, but I am certainly no expert. That said, if I were you, I'd go for it, especially if you have easy access to the inverter to uninstall it. My Outback was mounted under the coach, and at my age, I don't crawl around under coaches any more!

As for the air conditioner, it would pull well over 1000 watts, so I cannot see how it would go through the inverter. I am a bit surprised by the microwave, as it would pull close to the max watts of the inverter and would drain the batteries REAL fast if you ran it while not hooked up to shore power.

As for the air conditioner, I suspect it will be OK unless you actually tried to run it while connected to 220 volts.

[landlordy]

That is what I'm thinking, it is in a cabinet and fairly easy to access. I could easily swap it myself as long as there is no problem with the difference in wattage. I still can't help but think this is something stupid I don't smell anything burnt at all in the inverter, and the more I read about people who have done this I keep seeing people say it burned, smoked, popped, smells fried, etc. I have none of that.

[shilohdad]

You keep saying you have no shore power, but I am not sure you can really say that. Certainly your inverter isn't seeing shore power, but non-inverted AC appliances should be seeing shore power, as they don't go through the inverter. Plug into shore power and see if the air conditioner runs. If it does, you know you actually are getting shore power into the coach. If the air conditioner doesn't run, then you may have fried something downstream, perhaps the transfer switch (and, no I can't say where that puppy sits in your coach).

Also, you say there is no breaker for the air conditioner. I find that hard to believe. The breaker for it may reside elsewhere in the coach. Born Free tended to hide them in strange places, sometimes. Our first coach had a converter, not an inverter, and most of the breakers were located adjacent to that converter, which was under the sink. But there were other breakers under the stove! In our current coach, which has an inverter/charger, all the breakers are above the coach entry. There are 2 sets, one of which is fed from the inverter for 2 sets of 110 outlets, one of which is fed directly from shore power/generator for all the major appliances (air conditioner, microwave, water heater, refrigerator). You will find the air conditioner breaker SOMEWHERE! There will also be a coach main breaker somewhere. You just need to find them. Check inside all cabinets. Maddening, isn't it?

[landlordy]

shilohdad lol it is maddening! Ok let me tell you where i am at now. I followed my shore power outlet wire and it goes directly into the converter where its labeled "ac power in" and then another wire comes out of the inverter "ac power out" and goes straight to my circuit breaker panel. None of the breakers (5) are labeled air con but get this in my born free owners manual the 5th breaker is indeed labeled air con! I dont think I have any other breaker panels. The more i read about my inverter/charger (freedom 10 by heart interface) the more I believe it is indeed the transfer switch inside it that is fried and not letting the shore power through! Take a look at what it says it does:

1. AC power inverting.
2. Automatic transfer switching between
inverter power and incoming AC power.
3. Automatic 3-Stage Battery charging plus
manual battery equalizing.

Here is a link to the owners manual if anyone is interested lol
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Discon ... manual.pdf

[whemme]

landlordy,

If you shut off your Freedom 10 inverter and with your coach connected to shore line power, do any of you ac appliances such as microwave and air conditional work? If not and if your Freedom 10 is also acting as your charger/converter then the 110 vac transfer relay (switch) in the Freedom 10 has been fried. If you also have a traditional Magnetic 7345 Charger/Converter it will look like the two attached photos below. The 2nd photo shows the unit with the front cover & lid removed. This unit is typically mounted below the bathroom sink.

[landlordy]

Thanks Bill,

No I have nothing when shoreline is plugged in and inverter off. The freedom 10 is an inverter/charger/transfer switch. My rig is wired funny though I am learning on another forum. It goes from the shore plug directly into the freedom 10 and then out of the freedom 10 and into my breaker box. I believe you are correct in that the transfer relay has been fried. The only thing I am questioning now is the transfer relay inside the freedom 10 or could it actually be in the control panel display that shows the status of my system.?

[whemme]

landlordy,

Is your Born Free equipped with a generator? If it is, will your microwave or air conditioner work with the generator running?

Normally the function of the transfer switch (relay) is to switch the 110 vac input power to your coach's ac power buss off of the shoreline connection to the output of the generator after about a 30 second delay after starting the generator. The transfer rely's energizing coil is not powered when the generator is off causing the relay's default contact positions to be closed so that shoreline power is connected to the coach's ac power buss. When the generator is on (assuming you are equipped with one) a 30 second time delay circuit will energize the transfer relay to disconnect from shore line power and connect instead to the 110 vac output of the generator.

[landlordy]

Bill my rv is not equipped w a generator. It is a very basic 20ft sports van w microwave, roof ac, fridge, cooktop. It has no water or generator. I have just removed the cover of the freedom 10 and all looks in great shape. Nothing showing signs of being burnt. There are even some very small fuses inside on one of the boards that are in tact. How do I know what is the transfer relay (sorry for my bad terminology)? I see the big red and black battery cables going into some copper looking thing from a high school science project (energizing coil you spoke of?) and then other than that only a couple of circuit boards and one little thing that looks almost like a car amplifier w the neg leads screwed to it. Could it be the actual plug of my shore power had some feature from letting the 220 in?

[shilohdad]

landlordy, I looked at the manual for your unit. It appears you have a remote control panel. The manual says in this case that the power switch on the unit should be left off in this case. I presume the remote control panel somehow overrides the switch on the unit.

I am beginning to wonder if it is only the remote control mechanism which has a problem. What happens if you put the switch on the inverter/charger itself to the on position? You may have to somehow disconnect or disable the remote control panel input formthis to have any effect. With luck, if this works, you would only have to replace the remote control panel.

[landlordy]

shilohdad! I had a very similar thought about an hour ago! Maybe that panel is all that is toast. It still works and shows if battery charging etc which made me think not, however as you stated the power switch on the actual inverter was off when i hooked up the 220 and only that control panel was on. That panel is for sale on ebay as we speak. I have turned on the inverter switch and nothing happens though, the only way I am able to get the inverter to come to life is to turn on the panel switch. I will try to isolate the 2 now see if the inverter comes on. I also have the cover off the freedom 10 and I think I have located the transfer relay.

[whemme]

landlordy,

Page 24 of the Freedom 10 manual that Joe provided you a link to describes the transfer switch. It consists of 3 separate single pole relays mounted on one of the internal pc boards. Since you don't have a generator these 3 transfer relays are not really necessary in your Born Free. However they may still be fried causing shore line power not be connected to the 110 vac input power bus to your coach.

[landlordy]

Thanks Bill I have to admit I did not look at that link because I have the original owners manual in paperback form that came in the coach. Mine looks almost identical but incredibly has much less detail and troubleshooting. On page 24 of mine is is "marine installation". Now that I can locate these relays is there a way to test them? Also what did you think of his suggestion on the panel being the only thing toasted?

[whemme]

landlordy,

Unfortunately I am not personally familiar with the Freedom 10 but I have got to think that those transfer relays are the only thing that directly connects the 110 vac shore line input power thru to the coach's 110 vac input power bus. I don't have a schematic of the Freedom 10 so don't know what else might be in series with that pass thru connection besides those relays. The most likely thing I can think of is a 30-amp circuit breaker that may tripped and has not been reset properly or has failed. The only way in my opinion that the control panel could be causing the problem is that of some possibility that a failure in it is causing the transfer relays to be powered on into the position that it thanks that the generator is running - thereby disconnectng the system from shore line power. A possibility I suppose.